I just don’t particularly understand how you can be part of the strictest hierarchical structure that exists, understand how efficient it is and what we are fighting, and then somehow lambast MLs for wanting a strict hierarchical structure for the revolutionary party because we understand what we’re fighting against.
Maybe you can think “this isn’t efficient” but anyone who thinks about it for a few minutes can see how it’s more efficient than nobody taking or giving any orders at all.
Doesn’t have to be efficient, just has to be more efficient than the alternatives.
If someone can come up with something more efficient I will immediately switch to it.
Maybe efficiency isn’t everything. Maybe you could try to see how, having grown up under one hierarchical boot, and then working inside of another, they could feel that hierarchy will always be oppressive and therefore should be struggled against.
Efficiency is everything in a zero-sum war between capitalism and revolutionaries.
You either do shit better than them or you lose. It’s really as simple as that. The revolutionary forces need to become strong enough to overcome the defence forces of capitalism.
There are two ways to this:
Building a more efficient revolutionary army than the army of the state.
The army of the state becoming so resource-stretched that it becomes weaker than the revolutionary army.
Or most likely: A combination of the above.
You can try and be completely disorganised and just hope that the state collapses so fucking hard that it can’t even fight a leaderless revolution with no hierarchy. But seriously consider that that isn’t going to be allowed to happen by foreign capitalists who WILL intervene when the moment of collapse occurs if things get that bad. More likely things wouldn’t ever get that bad too, which is why you need the vanguard to begin with, to push things truly over the edge, to place a thumb on the scales.
I think the work you are looking for is effective. You really don’t understand military structure if you think they will be more efficient than your cells.
The soviet union was less efficient in that it allowed compradors to take power and end it. It was a less efficient proletarian-dictatorship than the rival bourgeoise-dictatorship. Its principle mistake were structural mistakes allowing the liberals into power.
Yeah having all of their cities and a quarter of their population destroyed will do that.
Under Stalin and Lenin it was extremely efficient, growing and developing the economy at extreme rates unseen in human history up that point until the German invasion of WW2. The destruction of WW2 and the Liberal-revisionist take-over of the post-war government after Stalin’s death led to liberalization and stagnation right at the time where they needed to recover the most via command planned economy. Kruschev’s social imperialism and revisionism led to the Sino-Soviet split.
There was a failure there, a failure in purging out the social-imperialists and revisionists like Krushchev and his ilk.
Regardless it’s very evident it would smear every anarcho-commune on earth in a millisecond if it felt like it. You cannot compete with organized imperialism with rifles and a can do attitude.
I mean he clearly regretted joining and felt guilty about being part of that structure, considering some of his last words were “I am an active-duty member of the United States Air Force, and I will no longer be complicit in genocide”
In the case of a vanguard party, that strict hierarchical structure would be controlling the civilian population instead.
The vanguard party would be replacing the currently ruling bourgeois parties. It is a civil authority, but unlike the current system, it would represent the population.
The difference is that the US military is subservient to civilian authority. In the case of a vanguard party, that strict hierarchical structure would be controlling the civilian population instead.
Hahaha damn you guys are so soft. Everything I posted was 100% factual. You spend so much time in this echo chamber that being exposed to reality is a very jarring experience for you, and you’re not even sure how to react when confronted with it. It’s really fascinating from the outside looking in.
I wanted to resume my mission of helping to save some of you from this vicious cycle of delusion, because as we can see from recent events, online extremist political spaces have the potential to radicalize people to the extent that they self-immolate.
But obviously, it’s a long shot, especially if I can’t even post purely logical and factual counterpoints without them being removed. I just don’t understand how you can ostensibly believe yourself to be a part of a leftist space when even the most trivial intellectual debate is censored. I’ve always associated that kind of doublethink with conservatives.
Isn’t it patently obvious that you have no legs to stand on when you can’t even manage to formulate a counter-argument for the fact that western militaries are generally subservient to the civilian population, while communist vanguard parties are not? That’s an incredibly fundamental aspect of Marxist Leninist theory, and you don’t even have a convincing justification ready? Disappointing.
I just don’t particularly understand how you can be part of the strictest hierarchical structure that exists, understand how efficient it is and what we are fighting, and then somehow lambast MLs for wanting a strict hierarchical structure for the revolutionary party because we understand what we’re fighting against.
It’s just so contradictory.
This assumes they see it as efficient. They hated it. They chafed under it.
Maybe you can think “this isn’t efficient” but anyone who thinks about it for a few minutes can see how it’s more efficient than nobody taking or giving any orders at all.
Doesn’t have to be efficient, just has to be more efficient than the alternatives.
If someone can come up with something more efficient I will immediately switch to it.
Maybe efficiency isn’t everything. Maybe you could try to see how, having grown up under one hierarchical boot, and then working inside of another, they could feel that hierarchy will always be oppressive and therefore should be struggled against.
Efficiency is everything in a zero-sum war between capitalism and revolutionaries.
You either do shit better than them or you lose. It’s really as simple as that. The revolutionary forces need to become strong enough to overcome the defence forces of capitalism.
There are two ways to this:
Or most likely: A combination of the above.
You can try and be completely disorganised and just hope that the state collapses so fucking hard that it can’t even fight a leaderless revolution with no hierarchy. But seriously consider that that isn’t going to be allowed to happen by foreign capitalists who WILL intervene when the moment of collapse occurs if things get that bad. More likely things wouldn’t ever get that bad too, which is why you need the vanguard to begin with, to push things truly over the edge, to place a thumb on the scales.
I think the work you are looking for is effective. You really don’t understand military structure if you think they will be more efficient than your cells.
Efficiency is everything because if your system is less efficient you will be destroyed by the more efficient one
So the Soviet Union was less efficient than the US, got it.
The soviet union was less efficient in that it allowed compradors to take power and end it. It was a less efficient proletarian-dictatorship than the rival bourgeoise-dictatorship. Its principle mistake were structural mistakes allowing the liberals into power.
Yeah having all of their cities and a quarter of their population destroyed will do that.
Under Stalin and Lenin it was extremely efficient, growing and developing the economy at extreme rates unseen in human history up that point until the German invasion of WW2. The destruction of WW2 and the Liberal-revisionist take-over of the post-war government after Stalin’s death led to liberalization and stagnation right at the time where they needed to recover the most via command planned economy. Kruschev’s social imperialism and revisionism led to the Sino-Soviet split.
There was a failure there, a failure in purging out the social-imperialists and revisionists like Krushchev and his ilk.
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Regardless it’s very evident it would smear every anarcho-commune on earth in a millisecond if it felt like it. You cannot compete with organized imperialism with rifles and a can do attitude.
What…
I mean he clearly regretted joining and felt guilty about being part of that structure, considering some of his last words were “I am an active-duty member of the United States Air Force, and I will no longer be complicit in genocide”
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Yeah, I only became ML after actually doing real shit; I don’t think he had the chance.
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The US military is subservient to civilian authority? What.
I mean they do serve the interests of oligarchy which are civilians, so technically correct.
Hey it’s really you who wanted this genocide don’tcha know?
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The president famously never has any personal connections with the military
Such a laughably simple take it doesn’t warrant a response.
I’m honestly curious if you even have a narrative you tell yourselves, or if this whole server is just running on pure vibes 😂
What is the reality of the situation? Please enlighten me as to how the US military actually has authority over the civilian government.
The vanguard party would be replacing the currently ruling bourgeois parties. It is a civil authority, but unlike the current system, it would represent the population.
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There’s no contradiction. The people are at the very top of the hierarchy, the people except the capitalists and oligarchs that is
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Go back to sh.itjust.works.
Hahaha damn you guys are so soft. Everything I posted was 100% factual. You spend so much time in this echo chamber that being exposed to reality is a very jarring experience for you, and you’re not even sure how to react when confronted with it. It’s really fascinating from the outside looking in.
I wanted to resume my mission of helping to save some of you from this vicious cycle of delusion, because as we can see from recent events, online extremist political spaces have the potential to radicalize people to the extent that they self-immolate.
But obviously, it’s a long shot, especially if I can’t even post purely logical and factual counterpoints without them being removed. I just don’t understand how you can ostensibly believe yourself to be a part of a leftist space when even the most trivial intellectual debate is censored. I’ve always associated that kind of doublethink with conservatives.
Isn’t it patently obvious that you have no legs to stand on when you can’t even manage to formulate a counter-argument for the fact that western militaries are generally subservient to the civilian population, while communist vanguard parties are not? That’s an incredibly fundamental aspect of Marxist Leninist theory, and you don’t even have a convincing justification ready? Disappointing.