Asking legitimately not as a joke
Anyone can already euthanize themselves. We’re all just a helium or nitrogen tank and trash bags away from our exit stage right.
I fully support being able to choose to end your own life with dignity. But in Canada there were reports of people encouraging the homeless and severely ill to do it, simply because it was cheaper and easier for the institutions if these people killed themselves.
Within a capitalist society, where the lives of those who do not produce profit are not valued, it can lead to some sickening discriminatory behavior from profit-driven institutions.
within a capitalist society
Besides slavery, I cannot think of any successful societal system to date that did not prioritize rewarding the productive and/or powerful. Not saying that you’re wrong, just that it’s far from exclusive to capitalism. (The bar for “success” here being a society that exists over many generations)
Socialism and communism are specifically designed to put the needs of the people first. ‘From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.’
Socialism and communism, in theory, are structured to prioritize the needs of the people over profit or power. That slogan captures that ideal beautifully. However, history shows that the implementation of these systems falls short of their ideals. Issues like bureaucratic inefficiency, corruption, or the consolidation of power within ruling parties have led to systems that still reward the powerful or productive, just in different ways. I’d argue that the challenge isn’t the system itself but the difficulty of designing any system that fully aligns with such principles while addressing the complexities of human behavior and societal needs. Capitalism embraces it while socialism and communism pay lip service to ideals while also committing the same sins in practice. My point that it’s not exclusive to capitalism remains.
You’re comparing what corrupt communist leaders do to what capitalism does by design.
Yes, that’s what I said. I’m not defending capitalism.
Sources on that? Serious question
I’ve heard multiple people claiming this yet haven’t read anything about it
“Oh you’re disabled and can’t work”
Let’s make disability benefits super low, so you are unable to survive, thereby you have to “choose” euthanasia.
Current socio economic regime already works like this, at least within US and other third world locations, people are just in denial about it.
Misuse, or misjudging when to use it.
Exactly, if it’s going to be a policy it needs to have extensive safeguards. Who can make the call? Under what circumstances? What are the consequences for malpractice?
Imagine a shitty person, insurance company or hospital preferring to prematurely kill you or someone you love because it’s less effort and cheaper than trying to keep a person alive and help them recover. Because you know someday somebody will try
That’s a good reason to have a process for euthanization that is as thorough as the one for letting people die slowly by cutting off feeding tubes or machines that assist with bodily functions. Or even like the Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) choice that people can make when they are of sound mind.
It is not a good reason to ban it and make everyone else suffer by dragging out death when it is an inevitability and the person is ready to go.
The hospital industrial complex doesn’t get to make ass loads of money from keeping people alive just to suffer.
For the record, I’m all for the right to medically and painlessly end one’s own life if they so choose. That said…
It could potentially be abused in situations where someone has power of attorney or some other situation where they can make medical decisions on your behalf. That seems like a pretty easy thing to guard against, though.
The sick and elderly may feel pressure to not be a burden to others.
Do they not already? I work out a lot to prevent myself from being a burden if I’m older
Overall yes, but that pressure might be magnitudes greater when there is “an easy way out”.
And what is wrong with that?
I’ll gladly remove myself and the burden of caring for me if it comes to an incurable illness. Better I leave my wife with more resources than drain all those and still leave.
And argon or nitrogen can easily be had at welding supply stores…
You shouldn’t draw conclusions about others from yourself.
Some people might still value what they have. And who are you to tell another what others should do with their live?
They aren’t telling other people what to do, they are in favor of having the ability to decide. Euthanasia baing illegal is deciding everyone who is terminally ill must have a slow and agonizing death.
That’s not what was written:
- What are flaws of allowing anyone to euthanize themselves?
- People might feel pressured to kill themselves.
- And what is wrong with that?
That is exactly the opposite of giving people the option to choose. It’s pushing them into a given direction.
And just for the record: I watched my Great grandma wither away in a senior home while asking to be let go. I would have gladly given her peace if it was legal. But it has to be the person’s own choice. Free from others influence and pressure.
There’s a fact-checked debate from Vox where both parties set 3 facts that they both agree to. Then they provide footnotes and more information that’s not covered by just the facts. I found this format very enlightening while also explaining both points of view without getting heated.
I only found it on YouTube, but it might be available elsewhere.
In terms of yourself, it already effectively is legal. When was the last time someone was prosecuted for attempting suicide?
that’s the problem though. people try to do it themselves and often die painfully or survive with sometimes debilitating lifelong injuries. this way, it’s on their terms but supervised by a doctor, and it’s not a violent way to go.
Choosing for yourself if you’re of sound mind, I have no problem with.
Others choosing for you is rife with problems. Taking out family because they don’t like you, you’re too needy for them, to get at your will, etc etc.
For assisted suicide, I think you just need to make sure it’s the only option left to stop or prevent the suffering of a person (like an incurable disease, or debilitating conditions with no cure, etc.). You also need to make sure the choice is made with enlightened consent.
To allow someone to kill someone else is another level of complexity. The processes of gathering consent, and the reasons to proceed are extremely complex to make sure the decision is taken within the bounds of actual consent, especially if the person to be killed is not conscious or in a capacity to understand.
Time, multiple checks/options to back out, and independent evaluation is the way you handle this.
People with depression and other mental illnesses who aren’t capable of making that decision will use it. It also makes it a lot easier to argue for cutting mental healthcare and other suicide prevention measures.
Honestly as someone who’s struggled with depression for 20 years, and had a couple of attempts, the idea that the government may just decide there’s no problem with me yeeting myself is terrifying.
As a concept the idea of allowing total autonomy seems sound.
Implementing it as a practice where the government assists could see some perverse incentives to get people to kill themselves. Here’s a real example
If the system can safeguard against these, perhaps, but it isn’t a one and done safeguard but constant vigilance. Allowing others to put down people raises even more need for scrutiny.
We already have processes in place to make decisions for those that are unresponsive and on life support/feeding tubes that could be used with a few changes for similar situations involving euthanasia.
It’s legal in some countries, so I don’t see much risks. They rotty sure you can look up for data from Switzerland, Belgium and Netherlands
There are quite some checks and balances in place over here (Netherlands). I have known some terminally ill people who went this route, and one it wasn’t an easy option, two people postponed or didn’t go through with it, three some people couldn’t take this option anymore because you have to arrange it in advance and they ran out of time.
Legal does not imply moral.
Illegal does not imply immoral.
To be fair, the ethos of those countries as a whole is different from other places like the US. Some places, I think, are inherently unsafe for euthanasia.
If you didn’t kill yourself I’ll kill your whole family.
Murder becomes too easy
