https://teddit.zaggy.nl/r/Psychonaut/comments/18mth6c/peyote_is_the_darling_of_the_psychedelics/
Honestly this whole thread is a cesspool, pure psychic damage. There are literally functional alternatives, but still these self-enlightened egolords can’t keep their fucking hands off an endangered plant. The prevailing attitude looks to be “Its there, so I i am entitled to plunder it”
also if you use magic mushrooms you have a moral duty to know what happened to María Sabina
TIL about the MKUltra connection to what happened to her
thats the part that gets me!! how is the cia at the crime of EVERY bad thing in Latin America.
If something happened in South America in the last 80 or so years, “CIA did it” is an appropriate response 99% of the time.
aww what the hell, fuckin kkkrackers
Tbh whites should not use magic mushrooms at all.
Tbh whites should not use magic mushrooms at all.
How deep does this argument go? Should white people also not use synthetic psilocybin as a migraine prophylactic? Psilocybin or derivatives shouldn’t be used to treat depression?
I agree that the dominant psychedelic culture (especially in amerikkka) fucking sucks, is riddled with abuse
I guess I’m just having trouble following the argument that because the CIA and associated colonizers committed atrocious acts to Sabina and her family and community every other imperial subject should cease using a compound (or derivatives) that humanity has historically used in Europe, Asia, and Africa.
i read somewhere i cant find it now, that it didnt matter if outsiders use the drug because the magic has already been killed
but if the indigenous people thats use it say otherwise or change their mind yes 100% no question. anyone using peyote outside of the church approval is i giant piece of shit.
Although Anderson sympathized with the landowners, who wished to make their land productive and protect themselves from litigation by anyone who was injured on their ranch while collecting peyote, the closure of peyote harvesting grounds produced “serious tensions” between indigenous people and the ranchers. According to Salvador Johnson, the largest peyote distributor in Texas, 100 percent of the land in Texas where peyote grows is privately owned, which means that if peyoteros are going to harvest peyote, they need permission from landowners.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/zmdzbw/the-decline-of-american-peyote-v24n5
As someone who loved drugs back in the day, I always told people that they should grow their own San Pedro’s or another common mescaline cactus and not peyote. I know a guy whose entire house is filled with different species of peyote, literally every inch of his floor covered in pots. He had trichoceruses he kept for tripping. If it didn’t keep him busy and happy with himself, I’d say it was a hoard. But he was growing for repopulation and regularly planted around town, so it’s healthy-ish for him. Got himself off heroin by growing peyote for repopulation, not by taking it. He was the only white guy I’ve ever met that taking peyote would be perfectly ethical, but still didn’t do it
It’s not hard to be respectful. Especially when San Pedros are legal and extremely easy to get.
Quick aside, why don’t conservationists take some of the plant into a greenhouse and grow a fuck ton of it so it’s no longer endangered?
i actually looked into this and there is a way to harvest peyote sustainably (cutting precisely above the root and leaving some green with a clean and sanitized knife each time) but white techbro psychonauts are fucking idiots and just start whacking at it with a machete haphazardly, there are a lot of researchers that have them in a greenhouse but the key issue is root rot and too much watering, the greenhouse also has to get very hot so setting up a microclimate just for the cacti is expensive (re: capitalists prefer the cheap method of going out and ripping everything out of the ground for free)
imo i dont think there is anything wrong with doing peyote or magic mushrooms or whatever, especially when it serves a medical purpose (like ptsd research), but you should be growing it sustainably so that the people that have rituals about going out in the wild and getting them and maintaining them arent screwed over (which afaik is the main complaint from indigenous groups). the plus side to growing at home is that you are helping preserve biodiversity, esp if you partake in guerilla planting of excess seeds. guerilla planting is the mvp and you ostensibly need to grow it at home to do that.
i guerilla plant all sorts of endangered species in microclimates where they will outcompete invasive ones, its a very important thing to do and getting the seeds isnt actually that hard. whats hard is conservation societies dont have a complex understanding of local microclimates like a local does. ive been able to successfully purge non native grasses from huge swathes of local meadows over the past 10 years. when you do that it leads to a flourishing of native plants and wildlife, the grasses really are a keystone species that bring all the native stuff back in so many areas.
Watched some Crime Pays But Botany Doesn’t about “growing cactus from seed” and it’s about indigenous people growing peyote (and other cacti).
They’re already overharvested and dying out in the wild. Fuck off white psychonauts.
Love this channel
VIRTUE BLACKMAILING
Typical white pig doesn’t understand why he can’t eat all of a sacred endangered plant that takes 30 years to grow.
OINK OINK MUST CONSUME.
THE TREATS MUST FLOW
the treats must flow as easily as this badly photoshopped image of microcars I made where the cars are 5x smaller in order to give the illusion that expanding car lanes would increase transit productivity
I don’t think it’s a matter of gate keeping the drug do much as it is of keeping the plant from going extinct due to over harvesting. Grow your own peyote (most won’t bc they lack the necessary skills and patience, even if they have an appropriate climate) or just use other psychedelics.
The prevailing attitude looks to be “Its there, so I i am entitled to plunder it”
Isn’t that just the cracker ethos writ large?
yep most white leftist feel the same way on this too, if you try to tell them they cant do something they will scream and cry and call you a racist. i was just thinking yesterday that its only a matter of time before white leftist demand to use racial slurs in the name of equality. wait i just remembered zizek exist and is popular.
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is pandanas an endangered species? the cactus is.
If whitey wants peyote, whitey should grow it on his own land, it’s all stolen anyway.
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No one should be harming the plants in that case
except for the indigenous people who have used it for over 5000 years with no problem right??
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Indigenous growers know how to harvest the plant safely. The problem comes from colonizers taking the whole plant or clumsily over harvesting and killing it
Tigers also harvest pretty poorly
Sure, but Peyote takes 10-30 years to grow in a very specific climate, and is endangered due to overharvesting. Growing your own is one thing, but exploiting an endangered plant and telling the groups that use it to “Grow it on their own land” is blatant colonizer behavior.
tacit attempts at virtue-blackmailing
this redditor has no concept of shame leftTBF, I’ve abandoned shame in myself as well, I see it as a form of social control I don’t need or want in myself. The main problem is that they didn’t decide not to feel shame, they just became immune due to an over-abundance. That was their only moral check, was not looking bad to others. Once they lost it they have nothing holding back their appetites.
sounds good and healthy tbh - and yet you still know the word shame. What I felt was so funny about the part I quoted is, that it seemed like the guy struggled to verbalize the very concept of shaming and as such defaulted to construct something with a virtue-component (that’s what the libs have right) and ended up with this hilariously over-complex-yet-primitive turn of phrase. Virtue-blackmailing alone just kinda sent me
Not saying shame is a good thing to cultivate or w/e
Oh, gotcha
I read the original article and the only thing I have against it is the anti-synthetic peyote stance they have. I get it’s a sacred plant but if the option is people foraging it to extinction or letting them have a lab grown version then just let them make it in the lab. As much as I support indigenous folks in their anti-crakkker stance they don’t have the right to the molecule itself especially if it isn’t derived from peyote.
I assume that’s the point of the first comment. Not “Let me forage this plant to extinction” but “If you say I can’t have a synthetic version and I can’t forage then what do you want me to do?” Just let them have the lab-grown stuff and keep the plants yourself. Less foraging, psych folks get their trips, everyone’s happy.
Yeah i re-read the article a few times and came to a similar conclusion. At the same time - if they have an issue with white colonizers using synthetic
Peyotemescaline, is that not also worth consideration and empathy? It subverts the supply issue, but it feels to me (as a white colonizer) like approptiation of someone’s culture, against the protest of the people who’s culture is being appropriated.Should we really be forcing onto any indigenous peoples our views of whats “fair”? There exist many alternatives to mescaline, and I think their desire to not have it commodified and shared should be respected.
Appropriation isn’t a marxist criticism. Stop using it in this way if you’re going to keep saying it.
Can you help me understand what you mean, or point me in the right direction? I’m not exactly a well-read Marxist and I’m not trying to hide it
Appropriation is a value-neutral concept. And also not rooted in exploitation per se. There’s an erroneous conflation here between colonialist appropriation which does material harm to the people being colonized as well as possibly being a component to the ideology of colonialism (like Israel taking Palestinian culture into itself to use as a justification of their superiority to them) which marxism will sometimes talk about, versus neutral appropriation like white people using synthetic peyote or American teenagers making vaporwave from '80s J-Pop.
It’s not inherently disrespectful to use things without chaining ourselves to the original contexts they were used in. It can sometimes be harmful and/or disrespectful but idpol liberals literally only care about turning anti-imperialism and morality into arbitrary dinner etiquette. So they just call it all cultural appropriation and tell people not to do arbitrary things.
Good post!
No offence to any psychedelics users here, but every person who claims that they made them more enlightened, empathetic or understanding in my experience was always a worse human being afterwards, because they behaved exactly like this redditor. “I’m an enlightened empath because of my psychedelics, and that makes me better than you, so shut up and quit complaining, some of us have real problems, like I haven’t gotten high in 20 minutes!”
every person who claims that they made them more enlightened, empathetic or understanding in my experience was always a worse human being afterwards, because they behaved exactly like this redditor.
The hard part of psychedelics is not the revelation, but taking that revelation back to the sober mind. Psychs just break down the barrier and give you a heavy boost. If you can’t carry it back then you’re just using them a substitute for cultivating that behavior you want.
Yeah, they aren’t magic, they just make your brain all fucky for a bit. They’re a tool, not a cure-all.
They definitely opened my mind, but I think that had more to do with my denial of my gender identity, as it was still part of the trip that I had to willingly accept washing over me.
I see it kinda like caffeine. Sure, it can stimulate you and “wake you up,” but it isn’t going to do anything to someone who is intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally comatose. You need to want to change something in yourself, to be willing to do what needs to be done for your own and others’ good, whether or not it hurts.
People like this make is horribly difficult to get anyone to even try meditation, as they go around convincing everybody it’s solely a practice in clearing your mind, when in actuality it should be an exercise of mindfulness, in which you raise your awareness of your mental state. Generally, this means people are quite surprised when I tell them about how things they do are functionally equivalent, like taking a walk while thinking introspectively.
Sorry for the rant.
No, it’s very much appreciated, I agree with the meditation thing, I’m hippie adjacent-adjacent (Friends of friends sort of thing) and some of the nonsense that comes out of their mouths about meditiation unlocking your “secret potential” and other bullshit, when it’s like…brushing your teeth, for your mind. It’s a good way to keep your brain healthy, it’s not magic.
Meh, it’s a mixed bag. Assholes tend stay assholes with drugs and cool people tend to be cool. I definitely met the worst kind quite a few times though
Yeah, I agree. They just get used by assholes to justify being an even bigger asshole.
This should apply to magic mushrooms as well. That was NEVER white culture, taking them is a form of expropriation of the exterminated Aztecs and other indigenous cultures.
Basically, if you’re not native, why are you doing the chemical equivalent of putting on a native headdress for fun?
There are psychedelic mushrooms native to other parts of the world, ie England and northern Europe have local varieties.
That and you can grow them with basically clean dirt, water, attention, and an unoccupied shelf.
A lot of psychonauts don’t really respect the mushroom though and treat it as a high rather than an experience. I don’t think we should gate keep the positive effects they have on brain elasticity though.
