Not really sure what to put here…I usually put relevant excerpts, but that got this post deleted for doing that
Laura Passaglia, the Sonoma County Superior Court judge who presided over the trial, barred Hsiung from showing most evidence of animal cruelty, depriving him of the ability to show his motives for entering the farms.
What a bitch.
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What part of “the whole truth” does that judge not fucking understand?
The part where she either:
A. Is literally being paid to look the other way
or
B. Doesn’t want anything to come to light that could affect her way of life
Or any combination of those
Or she’s just a bitch
I’d go with A and C there. The whole county is apparently in bed with these massive farms.
You’re more than likely to go to prison for messing with the rich’s revenue streams.
painfully true
For those who aren’t necessarily concerned about a factory farm environment, they may not consider these animals as “valuable” enough to care.
However, to appeal to those people on a different level, that is the food you eat. And the people producing it are being very very very very protective about how it is produced. They are doing something to your food that they don’t want you to know about, and it certainly isn’t good that they’re trying to hide it.
Factory farming is a huge reason for disease outbreaks. Bird flu? Mad cow disease? Right here, folks. And they’ll package up your food without a thought other than the money they make from it.
Are you okay with the animals you eat living in conditions that could expose you to health risks? I hope you would be outraged if a food company was potentially putting you at risk because of their concern over their profits.
You should care.
It’s not illegal to “expose” animal cruelty in California, and no one has ever been charged with doing so. Animal cruelty is prosecuted all the time in California. The headline is stupid. The headline is wrong.
You an idiot. Read beyond the headline and you’ll see that in California activists are being charged for being attention to deplorable conditions in animal farms yet the farms they exposed have no charges against them.
was convicted of two counts of misdemeanor trespass and one count of felony conspiracy to trespass last week
Activists aren’t given carte blanche to break the law. That’s called vigilantism. And it’s illegal.
?
I was just showing one of many examples from the article that the activists weren’t “being charged for being attention to deplorable conditions in animal farms” but actual other crimes.
I was agreeing with you, sorry, should have been more specific!
felony conspiracy to trespass
Anyone know what the difference is between a misdemeanor conspiracy to trespass and a felony conspiracy to trespass?
The first sentence literally contradicts the headline. Headline says you could get in trouble for “exposing animal cruelty” while the first sentence says an activist is being charged for “rescuing animals.” They did more than just expose cruelty; they took it upon themselves to stop it and in doing so broke the law. That’s what they are being charged for; not the exposure to the cruelty which is only being exposed because these activists are being arrested for trespassing and theft and it made the news.
The headline is wrong. The headline is stupid.
Message board hypocrisy, a concerto in three movements:
-
Moderato: In which the villain claims someone who hasn’t read or understood the article is an idiot.
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Adagio cantabile: the friendly townspeople read the article and lo! The villain himself did not understand the article!
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Allegro scherzando: where it is revealed to all that, by their own criteria, the villain actually called themselves an idiot. Bravo!
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There’s a bit of difference between “exposing animal cruelty” and stealing livestock.
Bit of a fucked up situation when conscious beings are considered property though.
My cat is a conscious being.
I still own her.
I also have a cat.
I am her legal custodian, she isn’t property.
I was just borrowing it osfficer
They were stealing sick livestock that had no commercial value.
Still, that’s a few steps further than just “exposing animal cruelty”.
Not saying what they did was wrong at all, but the headline is definitely clickbait.
(Note: I haven’t read past the headline or some of the comments, so I might be way off)
Juries didn’t view it as wrong in past court cases. This was the first one to land a conviction, and they did it by putting a gag order on all the footage the activists took, which in previous cases was instrumental in swaying juries.
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houses and cars are inanimate objects.
Juries acquited these activists of theft in previous cases, because they were shown footage of the awful condition the stolen animals were in. Which was why, in this case, the prosecutors dropped the theft charges, put a gag order on the footage, and instead threw a “felony conspiracy to commit trespassing” charge at the leader of the group, who didn’t even participate directly in stealing the animals.
Sentient beings are not houses or cars. If parents abuse their babies, they will get them taken from them. Same should apply to animals.
If parents abuse their babies, they will get them taken from them.
By the state after a detailed legal process, not some rando off the street after a beer.
But with animals, the state won’t help them. If a baby was being tortured and the state wouldn’t save them, how could you blame someone for taking it into their own hands?
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It is weird just how secretive the slaughterhouses are.
I don’t usually discuss this sort of thing very much with carnists IRL, because I tend to find their “arguments” and their positions rather tired and boring and in general completely irrational. The “but where do you get your protein?” type of questions or “I tried being a vegan/vegetarian but it didn’t agree with me because of my special DNA due to my ancestry of northern Europeans or whatever” conspiracy theories are especially fun. It’s usually the carnists that go out of their way to be activists about their choices, not me.
I’ll usually answer direct questions and leave it at that. I find there is a certain type of carnist that get especially defensive (almost always men suffering from toxic masculinity) around the very presence of veg*ns and want to get into arguments, especially while eating.
But there have been times where I’ve asked why slaughterhouses have so much secrecy in some of these “conversations” where the carnist just won’t drop the topic and I’ve noticed that gives them some pause. At least for a small glimmer of time. I think it is because these carnist activists are the ones with the most amount of guilt and they know that most (normal) people don’t want to witness what goes on in slaughterhouses…
Are slaughter houses secretive?
I was raised in an agriculture focused community and did the whole FFA thing in highschool. I’ve since moved to another state and am now living the life of a city slicker, so maybe I’ve just become out of touch, but back then none of the “how the sausage is made” stuff was hidden from us. Hell we had a whole field trip to tour a pair of meat processing plants (one for poultry, one for beef).
Have things changed over the last 5-10 years? Is my experience just an outlier?
I think they’re referring to this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag
Not necessarily the slaughtering part, but the living conditions that these animals are stuck in, sometimes for years, is barbaric. Imagine being in a cage where you can’t walk and you have to stand in your own shit for days on end.
The ethics of animal slaughter and how it’s done are almost a separate conversation imo. No living creature deserves to be tortured (and outright torture does occur, see Earthlings or Dominion for the details)
The ethics of animal slaughter and how it’s done are almost a separate conversation imo
It is a separate conversation, and I’m glad you pointed it out because it’s an important distinction and one that is far too frequently overlooked.
Bringing an animal into the world with the intent of later killing it when it is entirely unnecessary to do so seems a bit wrong no?
I dunno, maybe your state did not have ag-gag laws.
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people don’t want to witness what goes on in slaughterhouses
That’s exactly why they’re secretive. It’s also true of many other industries and processes. There are a lot of things we benefit from that have unpleasant origins. When it comes to meat, you can make a relatively easy choice about it.
In my country it’s not a secret how these places operate, I went to a slaughter house as a class trip back in high school + one of our relatives owns a massive chicken and cow farm. The animals’ conditions are vastly different here than what I see from these terrifying documentaries.
My favourite kind of carnists are the ones who say “Because you eat none, I’m going to eat two hamburgers!”
Uh, okay. Is that supposed to spite me? Enjoy your heart attack, dickhead.
Oh, right. I didn’t even mention how the tired old Dad “jokes” get very boring, very fast. Especially when repeated nearly every time, by the same set of people, at almost every meal. That, or they nearly reflexively have to talk about how much they love meat, love to hunt, love to fish, love to grill, yadda yadda. No one brought up vegn anything mind you, it’s just the mere presence of any vegn(s) that seems to cause this…shrug.
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Sounds like you are doing a lot. I have found the phrase “the personal is political” became a very real thing for me years ago even when I just started cutting out certain meats (!) - when it came to the reactions of others as they found out, and also realizing in a very visceral way, that, with every single meal, there was a very concrete ethical, ecological, economical and health decision to be made.
I quickly found out that you have to “come out” at work (when food is being ordered out, restaurants are being decided on, etc) and for extended family, etc., even though you really don’t want to necessarily answer all the questions, parry all the nonsense in that particular moment. Most people are fine, maybe a small subset groan and roll their eyes, but keep their opinions to themselves, but there is that small percentage that seem to keep harping on it.
I have seen similar reactions to early adopters of hybrid vehicles. Save for EVs later. Or, as a kid, when someone with a legit extreme dairy allergy refused all dairy. It’s like there is a certain type of personality that really gets actually offended when someone decides to deviate from whatever system is handed to them as “the norm”, whether it’s ridiculously high meat and dairy consumption (no matter how harmful it is to themselves, even), or a standard internal combustion engine. Some people seem to really get worked up about it.
Anyway, I do what I can. I have not removed all dairy entirely, nor eggs. I view both as rather harmful to health, given the information we have (and the evidence seems to keep piling up on that), so I don’t make them a central component in any meal. I never drank milk anyway even as an omnivore - it’s been fairly clear that they are marketing that stuff as a “health drink” (lol) for a reason. Sometimes it’s very difficult to assess whether a given food is vegan or even at least vegetarian, but labeling/awareness has grown with time, so that has gotten a bit easier.
I find that so weird and illogical, because what does anyone else’s personal and internal choices have to do with me? The only reason I could care would be if I invited you to dinner I was cooking myself and you waited until serving time to mention you don’t or can’t eat something, and that’s because I’d feel bad not being able to feed you. You are a grown ass man (place hyphen(s) wherever tickles your fancy), and get to make your own decisions and life choices. Plus there’s more for me.
Maybe it’s from growing up in the 90s and 00s, but asking about food allergies, sensitivities, and restrictions should be just another Tuesday for anyone ordering food for a group. But I’d also never expect the group to cater an entire meal around my preferences or restrictions. Grown ass man is successful hunter gatherer.
Now all bets might end up off the table if that respect doesn’t extend both ways though, because again, every grown ass man (everyone regardless of gender and older than 18-21 gets to be a “grown ass man”, with bonus “grown ass man” points if over 80 and a grandmother (Betty White being the ultimate grown ass man and I’ll die on that hill)) gets to make their own decisions and life choices. Now this doesn’t apply if you got local recommendations for ethically raised and delicious food that you’re just passing along because better ingredients make better food. _itarian choices are like religion: follow what you believe, don’t mock and detract others, there is a time and place for mutual debate based on mutual interest, and if you act like a Jehovah’s Witness that showed up at the door then expect to get treated like one.
This has been true for a long time. Upton Sinclair, writing over 100 years ago about improving working conditions (for humans) ended up missing the mark and the end result was food quality regulations. Now, folks are trying to expose animal cruelty but end up getting stronger protections for corporations 🤡 we just can’t seem to care about living things 🙁
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Yes, as I said, and great quote to share!
Just sub the title for “Wealthy people or corporations are far less likely to be punished than someone whistleblowing that makes them look bad.”
Generically apply that our legal system.
Seems like the next option is to arrange for mass arrests in a very public direct action. Massively overflow the jail in that judge’s district with animal rights activists until they’re forced to dismiss the cases.
There’s no way this can backfire.
direct action with the goal of filling jails has a long and very successful history, going back AT LEAST to the IWW Free Speech Fights. It also saw widespread success during the fight for Civil Rights.
Can you bring up an example that wasn’t 50+ years ago?
There hasn’t been any “fill the jail” protests in the US since the civil rights movement due to the demonization of getting arrested. However, a protest like that has been occurring in Pakistan
For profit prison companies:
Rubbing their hands together like an oldschool nintendo villain
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Make me
No.
Oh hell to the no
Stop. Trying. To. Force. Your. Religion. Down. Other. Peoples. Throats.
Stop caring about climate change? Nope, I’ll still protest animal agriculture practices
Oh bullshit.
You just care about the smug sense of superiority you give yourself by huffing your own farts.
No.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hsiung is now being held in jail at least until his sentencing hearing on November 30 (like many other people detained in Sonoma County, he’s only allowed to leave his cell for 30 minutes per day, DxE communications director Cassie King told me).
“A big feature of these trials has been the opportunity to expose the lawlessness of the industry and juxtapose that with the trivial infractions by people who are rescuing animals … When you aren’t able to make that contrast for the jury, it’s a lot harder to win.”
Theft charges have opened the door for activists to show evidence of the health and physical condition of the animals they took, to try to persuade jurors that they were so sick that they wouldn’t have made it to slaughter, making them worthless to their owners — a defense that proved successful in DxE’s recent trials in Utah and Merced, California.
The DA office’s involvement in the Farm Bureau event “was to provide the attendees with information about criminal law as it pertained to trespassing,” Sonoma County Assistant District Attorney Brian Staebell told Vox in an email.
One of DxE’s major goals in its trials has been to win the right to present a “necessity defense,” in which a defendant argues that they had no option but to commit a crime to prevent a greater evil from occurring, like breaking into a hot car to save a baby or dog inside.
For example, Passaglia placed a gag order on Hsiung, barring him from talking to media during the trial, which was condemned as unconstitutional by UC Berkeley Law Dean Erwin Chemerinsky and by the ACLU of Northern California.
The original article contains 3,561 words, the summary contains 279 words. Saved 92%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
As soon as you suggest people stop eating meat, suddenly they have no moral standing or their change won’t make a difference. It’s just sad. People will hide behind ‘personal choice’ as if it absolves them of supporting the industry and any wrong doing that comes as a consequence of it. You can’t justify breeding an animal into existence for the sole purpose of killing and eating it when it is entirely unnecessary to do so. It’s probably the biggest example of injustice in the modern world, next to slavery.
Are they going to prison for exposing animal cruelty, or is it just committing crimes in service of the goal of exposing animal cruelty? I bet I know which.
They are stealing sick animals of no commercial value in order to render medical aid. In cases where they have actually gone to trial for theft, they have won, because they show jurors footage of the awful condition these stolen animals were in.
Which was why the prosecutors dropped the theft charges, put a gag order on the footage, and instead threw a “felony conspiracy to commit trespassing” charge at the leader of the group, who didn’t even participate directly in stealing the animals.
Well, due to ag gag laws, you’re committing a crime by exposing animal cruelty. So.
Oopsie woopsie, guess we don’t like knowing that, huh
I’m not subject to a gag law… I don’t even know what the statement means. I’m also not a journalist, or the subject of a court case, so it’s unlikely to have any impact to post comments on Lemmy.
Sorry, you misunderstood what I meant by “you’re.” I could have said “one is” to better avoid miscommunication. Anyway, look up some info on ag gag laws and then think about your original comment within the context of your new understanding of what is a crime in the USA.
So freeing livestock is a crime in your eyes?
My eyes don’t define crime. That’s not how it works. The law defines it. And the court looks at the law. I’m not a child so I understand this.
Do you consider Harriet Tubman a criminal too?
Ethically no, legally yes?
That’s sort of just how laws work. Legal doesn’t mean good.
Yeah, that’s what makes her brave. We just don’t say she was arrested for “speaking truth to power” or any other sensational nonsense. We say she was arrested for the crime she committed because it makes you think about why that’s even a crime.
Honestly, I believe the vast majority of effective and meaningful protests will involve a crime. Usually, some form of vandalism/trespassing all the way up to theft. We hope not violence against people but sometimes counter protests force hands.
I just think it’s important to own it (I mean, dont confess and get yourself arrested needlessly LOL) because that’s part of the deal. Things rarely happen when everyone is nice and cordial.
So why do we need to differentiate between “arrested for exposing abuse” and “arrested for breaking unjust laws in the process of exposing abuse”?
Because that’s how honesty works. My two phrases were similar, but the headline wasn’t accurate to the truth.
Exactly. Some people think that if you have an altruistic goal, you’re exempt from the rules everyone else has to follow.
Yes, I actually agree that there are laws worth breaking for protest. I just dislike sensational headlines.
It’s the fact that you are willing to face those charges that makes the act powerful. But phrasing it in a way that makes it look like you are in a totalitarian state, and being punished for speech instead of the crime actually committed does the movement a disservice, as you start erecting your own strawman for people to knock down.
They’re not punished for the speech, they’re punished for breaking the law.
Correct. That’s what I said.
The guy led a group that stole farm animals and Vox calls it a ‘rescue’. I wonder why he went to prison
It is a rescue
The law says stealing livestock isn’t. So he was prosecuted for breaking those laws, not “exposing animal cruelty.”
Change “Farm animals” for “slaves” and you have your answer.
You don’t steal individuals who are held against their will. You free them.
Crazy that this is getting downvoted. We are still so far off from even basic general empathy towards non-human animals it’s making me cry…
Slaves are humans by definition. Every definition beings with
“A person who…”
Knowledge of definitions has nothing to do with empathy. It’s hard to take people seriously when they insist we don’t know the meanings of words.
The best definition I’ve seen of a “person” is “A being worthy of moral consideration.” (a commonly used concept in moral philosophy). So yeah, that definition can be applied to a cow, unless you believe that no amount of suffering imposed on a cow for any or no reason could ever constitute an immoral act.
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Seems like it wasn’t for “exposing animal cruelty” so much as it was for, y’know, trespassing, breaking and entering, theft, etc.
For the sake of argument… if I hear you beating your dog, should I break down the door to stop it?
Yes, I could call 911, but by the time they arrive the sounds would stop and they’d have no probably cause. I could go in and steal the dog or even just record a video right now. What is the ethical thing to do?
Not really an apples to apples comparison (unfortunately). Cows have fewer rights than dogs.
You would be within your rights to do something about the dog scenario, and the law would support you. Cows, on the other hand, are seen as products or machines, so “doing the ethical thing” would be looked at as if you were trying to steal someone’s car.
I agree that it’s not right, but that’s why these activists are arrested, instead of the animal owners.
If only there was a device that can fit in your pocket that could record such things as well as allow you to call the cops
If only the OP was allowed to present those recording and videos taken through their magical pocket device in court.
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Only if your tresspass or break some law. Maybe you people can read the articles before commenting.
Just like those criminals who knew it is against the law to sit in the front of the bus, or those who used whites only bathrooms? They did not fight for freedom but break the law?
Did you just compare black people fighting for civil rights and equality with animal freedom?
I suspect you were just point out that civil disobedience is a valid protest tactic, but I would recommend just saying that next time. Comparing people fighting for equality with animals fighting for freedom is … Not great. At worst, it comes across as racist. At best, tone deaf.
I guess you are a speciesist to get so but hurt about a comparison, you know there is a difference to equation and comparing? How is it tone deaf in a thread about those who fight for those with no voice to say that it is a just cause, just like that I compared it to? Stop supporting animal abuse while acting upset about the logical comparison.
