Ever since I graduated, everywhere I’ve worked has been 8-5. My current company is going to soon start expecting us to be in 7-5.
How many of you here work a 9-5 with a paid lunch?
Productivity keeps going up but so do working hours.
I saw a law office once in the early 2000s that was 9-5. And the entire office shut down for an hour, while they all had lunch together in the conference room. The phones all went to voicemail and everything. I was working on replacing a few of their computers that day. They made me stop and join them. Seemed like a great place to work.
That’s what happens when the business is structured as a worker cooperative (as law firm partnerships basically are).
That’s not uncommon for doctors offices and such
Most high-skill jobs (e.g. software dev, engineering, research, higher education) are usually flexible with time. No one really cares when you come or go as long as you get the work done. People (read, good-for-nothing management people) are trying to make some of these more time-bound, but it’s usually counter-productive. Turns out when you want creativity from someone, you need to give them some freedom.
7? to goddamn 5? I’m not in at 7, and out way before 5, and if the boss don’t like it, then that’s not a me problem. 10 hours each day as in a 50 hour work week? That would be illegal in the EU, where you can’t work more than 48hours on average per week over a period of 4 months https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/human-resources/working-hours-holiday-leave/working-hours/indexamp_en.htm
Technically I come in at 7 and leave at 4:30, but it’s a 9 hour day (30 min unpaid lunch) and I get every other Friday off in exchange. Also most days I work from home. No way in heck I’d ever go in for something like that.
OP, start job shopping. Longer hours are a sign the business isn’t doing all that well and they’re trying to squeeze out some more labor. Or a sign they’re doing well but are not interested in taking care of people by hiring enough staff and would rather you burn yourself out.
I worked at one company that was 7am-5pm for corporate office work. The company grew from a small retail parts company decades ago, but never changed the mindset. So even the office work was treated like shift work. Office workers wouldn’t even check email before 7am. Many times just hanging out in the cafeteria until 7 on the dot when they had to be at their desks. Further as soon as 5pm hit exactly, all the office workers would drop what they were doing and walk out to the parking lot with all of the other blue collar shift workers.
This resulted in things like Purchase Orders getting delayed by a day because it arrived at the approver at 5:01pm and the approver was gone. There was nearly no weekend office work, which caused its own problems.
It was such a strange place to work.
Strange that people only worked during the hours they’re paid to work?
Salary workers aren’t generally paid for hours, but instead for the job.
So you’re saying they should have worked less?
It wasn’t a statement about more or less, but more flexible. The PO that came in at 5:01pm should have been approved, and the management shouldn’t have been so hardassed about being seated at your desk at exactly 7am.
I mean… the PO shouldn’t have come in at 5:01 if they wanted it approved that day. That’s just rude.
I work in document control, so I’m sending documents between companies regularly. Often, at the end of the week someone will dump a 100+ document transmittal on us half an hour before the end of the day. And then they go home.
You bet your ass that shit is waiting til Monday.
Oh certainly! I’m not suggesting that its reasonable for someone to drop hours of work on your desk at the end of the day and expecting you to stay late to finish it.
This was more of a 2 minute task, and not even on a Friday. Office workers worked only the 7am-5pm, but hourly non-office workers had 3 shifts. So it wasn’t uncommon that large tasks for the non-officeworkers which might be done overnight went undone because the office worker didn’t do a 2 minute tasks. This had downstream impacts to deliveries and client reception.
In any other org I’ve worked in, the office worker would maybe stay until 5:09pm to kick the task forward for overnight completion and perhaps come in 10 minutes later the next day. In this org if the office worker came in 10 minutes later (even if they worked 10 minutes later) the office worker would be written up!
So… they knew the value of their own time and didn’t overwork when they didn’t have to?
Most office workers could probably learn from that mindset.
So… they knew the value of their own time and didn’t overwork when they didn’t have to?
This worked the other way NOT in favor of the workers. Sat down at your desk at 7:03am even though you’re not customer facing at all? Expect to be called into a conference room with your boss and your bosses boss about your attendance.
Do you work in IT and need to work off-hours to perform work requiring downtime until 2am? You better be at your desk at 7am on the dot or you’re going to get written up.
Have a doctors appointment at 3pm for an hour? You have to take vacation time for that.
There was this really odd notion that if you weren’t sitting in your chair typing, you weren’t working and would get questioned by bosses.
Most office workers could probably learn from that mindset.
Office workers would learn (or be reminded) about how hellish it was to work a minimum wage job with zero flexibility.
That is 100% not how you framed your initial comment. It was very much focused on how the workers weren’t going above and beyond to work when they didn’t have to.
Sounds to me like they were reacting to a shit situation in the most appropriate way they could.
That is 100% not how you framed your initial comment. It was very much focused on how the workers weren’t going above and beyond to work when they didn’t have to.
That wasn’t my intent to communicate that, but on a re-read, I can see how you came away with that.
Sounds to me like they were reacting to a shit situation in the most appropriate way they could.
That was it exactly.
I mean… you didn’t say anything else, how else could you have meant it? You even complained that them leaving on time was inconvenient when someone else dumped something in their desk after working hours.
I mean… you didn’t say anything else, how else could you have meant it?
I was pointing out one part of the oddness of an office organization that chose to operate strictly from 7am-5pm. If you’re asking why I didn’t explain every aspect of every perspective, I’ll say it was a 30 second post on the internet, not a comprehensive peer reviewed study of workplace behavior.
I admitted my initial explanation had ambiguity that could lead the audience to arrive at an unintended conclusion. I’m not sure what more you want from me over that mea cupla. There’s no deeper motive on my part to mislead besides my admitted initial carelessness.
You even complained that them leaving on time was inconvenient when someone else dumped something in their desk after working hours.
Inconvenient to the organization, not to the worker. I was pointing out that the organization had created the situation working hours (strict 7am-5pm), yet was suffering because of how rigidly it enforced the rule. The org was shooting itself in the foot.
Do you work in IT and need to work off-hours to perform work requiring downtime until 2am?
Then you’re a chump for not doing it during business hours instead, rest of the company be damned.
They were still having 2 hours/day stolen from them, though.
If you aren’t getting a paid lunch and two 15-minute breaks during your 8-hour shift, your employer is stealing from you.
I’ve never had a paid lunch. 2 paid 15 min breaks and then unpaid lunch is the law where I am.
my dumbass state has no requirements for breaks at all. one of my jobs has no official breaks. we’ve all mastered the art of looking busy while eating 💀
Unless you are salaried. Being salaried normally comes with flexibility but gives no guarantees for breaks and number of hours worked.
That works both ways. If you’re salaried and find yourself averaging more than 40 hours a week (including lunch/breaks), don’t.
Sadly 32-40 hour weeks excluding breaks is what you get paid here (NL, Europe)
So if you get paid 40 hours a week, they expect you to average 45 including breaks. You get paid 40, though.
It’s really shitty IMO
There are two types of salary, exempt and non-exempt (from overtime pay). If I am remembering correctly, you basically have to be management to not get overtime pay. Something like being over at least 2 people and having input on major decisions. May have been more to it.
The list of exemptions is a mile long at this point: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-A/part-541?toc=1
Basically if you’re an office worker who makes more than than 34k/year, you’re probably exempt.
You have to be either management or highly-compensated (which means fuck-all, since the dollar amount tied to it never got updated for inflation). That’s why a lot of non-management tech workers (for example) are salaried exempt, and should therefore walk out whenever they’re told to work more than 40 hours/week (including lunch and breaks).
I’m technically 9-5, though I can choose 7 to 3 or 8 to 4 if I want. I usually work 7-4 and take extra breaks throughout the day (or a really long lunch). Granted, I work for a non-profit which has a LOT less bullshit to deal with. I also have the option to work 7-5 or 8-6 if I want to only work 4 days a week. Flex time is an amazing fringe benefit.
Outside of salaried jobs, I haven’t seen anywhere mandate 7-5 schedules for hourly employees (unless it’s a 4 day work week). Companies do not like paying overtime, so most I’ve dealt with will send you home the moment you hit 40 hours.
Flex time was one of the best parts of working in government. Being able to craft basically any schedule so long as it was 40 hours and not more than 10/day was really useful.
Flex time alone was worth the pay cut I took when I went corporate to non-profit. You can’t buy time, but flex time is the next best thing.
Don’t think that exists anymore.
Many of my jobs in software have been a sort of 10 to 6 schedule. Most of them have been pretty flexible about that so long as you attended all the required meetings and got your work done.
For the past 10 years or so, companies have gotten rather fond of 8am meetings.
I have never been 9-5 with paid lunch and I’ve been in corporate world since 1998. 8-5 with an unpaid hour.
Salaried employment exists, and there are more jobs out there than they want you to think. The employer-employee relationship is a constant negotiation, and you’re always free to walk away.
We don’t know how much time we have on earth, and you’re selling some of it in exchange for money.
They are going to keep pushing to get more of your life from you, and you need to push back to keep as much as possible.
I have a 9-5 job as a software engineer. Though really I can stop working whenever I’m done with my assigned work. I usually stop around 3 or 3:30.
Same. I am available 9 - 5, but I tend to be actually working 10 - 4. It fluctuates depending on how badly management wants things. And of course there’s the rotating on call schedule where sometimes I have to wake up in the middle of the night to confirm that a service my team owns is impacted by some other service’s outage. FUN!
Was literally going to ask this same question last week. Past three employers are expecting 8-5 m-f but only pay 40 hours.
I’ve just been coming in at 6 before the boss to look like a hardworking then leave at 2 so I only work what I’m paid.
That’s because you get a 1 hour lunch break. I would make sure to spend 60 minutes a day eating lunch.
I’m on 9 to 4:30 with half an hour lunch. Or I could do anything from 6 - 1:30 to 9:30 - 5.
And yes, I get paid for a full time job.
Unions are awesome.Sure, just depends on the business. Self-employed and small business are often much more flexible. I pretty much work 9:30 to 4:30.
I’m fully remote, with no clock to punch, but with co-workers all over the world. I try to focus most of my hours between 9 and 5, but don’t sweat it too much because a few times a month I need to be on a call at 5 in the morning or 10 at night.
There is simply no good time to schedule meetings with someone 12 hours away.
