I haven’t fully convinced myself on this line of thought but I figured I’d argue it as best I could mostly caue my lack of full conviction isnhonestly vibes based. I’d like to hear what people think. It’s an ML question, feel free to answer regardless.
So, your big well known national ML communist party is full of aging intellectuals with super reactionary opinions. This is no good. What is a young and based ML citizen to do? JOIN THE PARTY IS WHAT TO DO, make sure all your comrades and friends do too. It’s a super tiny little party! There’s gotta be enough of us to be able to take over the party! If membership skyrockets and an influx of young people are voting against this shit in the party and calling it out in party meetings and having others there to back it up, we can totally topple the shitty old guard. Take it as your first revolutionary lesson, seize the party, don’t be a splitter.
Combat Liberalism is all like:
To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one’s suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one’s own inclination. This is a second type.
Not to obey orders but to give pride of place to one’s own opinions. To demand special consideration from the organization but to reject its discipline. This is a fourth type.
To indulge in personal attacks, pick quarrels, vent personal spite or seek revenge instead of entering into an argument and struggling against incorrect views for the sake of unity or progress or getting the work done properly. This is a fifth type.
To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type
To see someone harming the interests of the masses and yet not feel indignant, or dissuade or stop him or reason with him, but to allow him to continue. This is an eighth type.
To work half-heartedly without a definite plan or direction; to work perfunctorily and muddle along–“So long as one remains a monk, one goes on tolling the bell.” This is a ninth type.
So that’s what my brain says and I’m leaning there any thoughts?
make sure all your comrades and friends do too
CPUSA has a membership of 5000. You need to collect 5001 people, then they all have to pay $60 memership fees. Relying on people to autonomously do something that still hasnt been done is not a good idea. Think of it like a strike, you need to recruit and organise before calling a strike vote, not after. If youre gonna do entryism centralise it, and youll have a susbstantial power base after that. To this ends you need to organise with people outside of the CPUSA first, and build a power base. This could and should start as a simple reading group. If you cant organise 8 people to read a couple pages of capital every week, you cant organise 5000 people to topple a behemouth. If you have no experience organising then you will just end up paying membership dues year on year while youre waiting for godot. A simple idea would to be to form a reading group, and then slowly reach out to other such groups acrosss the country. Build up your organising skills piece by piece. CPUSA is a behemoth, it is not small. I imagine its the largest communist party in the US. Currently your just hoping there are 5000 people out there that think like you. It would be much better to actually confirm it and make sure theyre acting as one through a democratic centralist organisation.
If membership skyrockets and an influx of young people are voting against this shit in the party and calling it out in party meetings and having others there to back it up, we can totally topple the shitty old guard.
Why wouldnt they rig the elections, or not give new entrants the right to vote, or not hold any elections at all. They wont go down without a fight.
You should meet all the local different communist parties (i imagine there might also be a PSL, or PCUSA) to judge how fucked they are. If the parties gel with you and your political line you can just join them instead. If they dont gel with you, and you find others who are discontent with national level policies and more importantly learning directives, then you could try poaching them from your book club, its not like they have to actually leave their party. But if theyre happy with their party theyll probably try to get you to join and be part of their reading club, thats a decision to play by ear. Edit: Obviously include your friends and comrades in this reading group too. If your friends and comrades dont have a more or less unified theorectical line, how do you think youll be able to unify 5000 to topple a party. A reading group can help to unify any discrepencies.
One last thing, in the CPUSA you will be paying to asscociate yourself with the most dogshit imperialist “communist” newspaper of all time the peoples world. I personally wouldnt pay them 60 bucks to do that if there was no strict plan to success.
This makes a lot of sense. I’m not American and dunno much about CPUSA aside from broad strokes and also forgot you guys have other communist parties. Totally blanked on that one for some reason.
Uh, you do not have to pay $60, you only have to pay $24, and possibly $6 on your honor, if you want to.
In addition, we do not have a membership of 5,000. That’s from Wikipedia.
JOIN THE PARTY IS WHAT TO DO, make sure all your comrades and friends do too. It’s a super tiny little party! There’s gotta be enough of us to be able to take over the party!
You’ll get purged from the party by joe sims personally.
Follow-up: Do you really think all those liberal lapdogs will give up the keys to the kingdom after they’ve been living high off the hog their entire lives? That they’d give up ownership of all the legacy assets from past communists who’ve set in their inheritance to the party they bequeath their worldly assets for generations? The legacy assets they’ve been profiteering off of?
It’d be nice if they did. But I think it’s about as likely as Biden honoring his word at being a one term president.
If membership skyrockets and an influx of young people are voting against this shit in the party and calling it out in party meetings and having others there to back it up, we can totally topple the shitty old guard. Take it as your first revolutionary lesson, seize the party, don’t be a splitter.
Follow-up part two: What do you think those Hazard dipshits were doing? Exactly this but even more insufferable, and every time they poked their heads up they got yanked out of the party with zero hesitation to the point for a set period of time anyone that was dissenting against the party leadership were assumed to be “In on the plan” and also removed from the party. Those that remain are the dying members of the old party who will stick to it like a crew on a sinking ship, new members that kept their mouths shut, and lastly young liberal sheepdogs. Those DNC running dogs capitalized on the purges done by the Rightist leadership of CPUSA by feeding names of anyone they didn’t like to be removed from the party like good little toadies, and as reward for their service from cleaning up the patsoc threat to the party (both real and unreal) these little liberal sheepdogs are being assigned leadership positions within their respective clubs and districts to groom them for national leadership so they can carry the torch forward as the current social fascists die out.
Combat Liberalism is all like:
last follow-up: Combat Liberalism only applies when you yourself are in a communist party and doing party work, with the writing itself being pointed towards further developing and sharpening the party membership and cadre into a fine point. If you want to personally follow it or parts of it, that’s perfectly fine. Just be aware that it’s not some kind of cheat code manual to communist life that’ll give you +10 charisma points. Oppose book worship and all that, avoid dogmatization.
Uhh, Combat Liberalism does not tell people to join an org to commit mass entryism on it; this is wrong, I’m sorry to say.
We mainly expel PatSocs from the party, especially here in my own district. Nat’l does not generally expel unless its a high profile case (such as John Bachtell almost being expelled from the party).
Most of the old guard is poor… They are not profiteering off of “legacy assets.”
Joe Sims is better than John Bachtell and, no, Joe Sims does not handle purging or expelling members.
Joe Sims > John Bachtell
That’s why we voted him in.
not CPUSAI can’t speak for PSL as I haven’t joined yet (they’ve been swamped, I won’t make excuses, it’s been an embarassingly long time for the supposed best bet so far) BUT CPUSA is a disaster organizationally. You will not fix CPUSA from the inside. There are many, many built in reasons for why you can’t, but instead try and find a local (not Maoist) ML group OR attempt to start a PSL chapter. From what I can tell they train you and are much more open institutionally, CPUSA will waste your time.
That user sharing an anecdote about PSL Organizers doing the our streets chant and then getting off the road is worth as much as shit on my boot, you think that’s bad, try CPUSA. Genuinely, PSL seems far more capable of having real things be done.
PSL is having a mild transphobia crisis at the moment and have been for the past few years. Hope they get that sorted out soon.
As a transgender woman, this is the first I’m hearing about it which is good to me, if it was high members being like “we’re not taking a stance on the transgender issue” I’d have seen it by now, a “mild transphobia crisis” to me sounds like they’re having a purge of transphobia in the org and not a public realization that the org enables transphobia or something. All good and done to me, water under the bridge
yeah that’s what I meant, PSL is currently going through a transphobia purge.
I’m not a member, but I’ve been to a few events and I’ve been speaking to some members as an openly trans woman, and they’ve all been totally normal and welcoming, fwiw.
yeah this is more of a structural thing from what I hear, stuff dealing with national level leadership and organizational code, not necessarily bigotry among rank and file members. I don’t mean to suggest that. I also don’t know a whole lot about it and only talk with several members of Texan branches when I do events and stuff with them, and this is the kinda stuff they tell me, that a lot of branches are looking at national rampant transphobia among everyday people and so PSL is examining its own structure for cracks. This is a good thing, btw. I commend PSL for taking this seriously and admitting they might have issues that need to be sorted out
the people on the street are gonna be different, and they’re normal. Out of the six PSL members I talk with, two of them are trans themselves (one NB and one trans man )
My genuine reaction to authoritarian means to protect my trans comrades
Maybe it’s just me, but the only people I’ve seen get particularly angry at PSL are terminally online CPUSA or PatSoc-types. Someday I may actually join PSL, but my schedule is dogshit enough that I work with a lot of PSL members despite not having the time for meetings.
CPUSA does not have terminally online types.
We are not PatSocs; we’re getting attacked by PatSocs like Haz and Maupin.
CPUSA has never been a waste of time for me. We have the heads of several labor unions in our org and many veterans from the anti-apartheid days.
I forgot that existed cause I’m not American. Join that.
As you said, you’re not American though.
Why would you tell people to join the party known to be entirely feds
? I think all left-minded young people already know this. CPUSA exists for us to laugh at, not for actual organizing.We are not “entirely feds.” Please do not just trust rumors or hearsay.
o7 Thank your for your service officer /s.
uh ok
People will call this “entryism” and be mad
People will call what you said “liberalism” and be mad
But, they won’t offer real solutions
What do you think?
I’m an idiot still trying to figure it out. I’m trying to start something in my local area, but it’s much harder than joining an established org. If you’ve got a group doing anything in your area, join it. I’ve found some good Marxists among the vaushites that infest my local orgs (and real anarchists doing good work), and slowly trying to get something going.
I do need some theory heads to bounce off of here though, cause I’m really felling right about this the more I think about it
Fair play.
Yes, you shouldn’t just join an established org with the intention to change it if you don’t believe in what the Constitution and Party Program says…
It is indeed liberalism and entryism.
The solution is to join an org you believe in, not try to turn CPUSA into something that it’s not while creating a crisis of discontinuity and further division. John Bachtell does not represent the whole organization and is a pariah within it.
is cpusa not a cia honeypot or am i mandela effecting myself?
I’m not American, I Aldo forgot you guys had more than 1 communist party that was bigger than 3 guys and their parrot. Say, PSL instead then. I made the more abstract thread to be more abstract than the cpusa. It see like they’re just bad to the bone in the not cool George thourougood way
We are not “bad to the bone.” We have lots of people that do mutual aid and other organizing efforts. Soup kitchens, even.
We are not.
What is the benefit of taking your time, money, and organizing energy towards entering into a party with known bad leadership and bad political lines purely for the attempt to push it left when you can direct all that to an actual non-reactionary party with line struggle? A party that cannot keep up with the masses is dooming itself to obscurity.
In addition, people like me will expel you from the party if you try to join just to do mass entryism on the org (I’ve helped to expel and inform on many PatSocs as well and gotten them expelled).
You have my word. We also vet people and on-board them.
What is a young and based ML citizen to do?
The number of young and based ML citizens in the US isn’t even enough to fill up half a minor league baseball stadium, and most of them hate each other irl, how the fuck are they supposed to pull of anything even approaching this?
I like this plan. We need a real working class party, and not a million pretenders at being the real working class party. The question is are there enough young MLs to pull this off, and how do we coordinate? We’ll be doing democratic centralism to take over a democratic centralist org, we’ll need to talk and not be just a bunch of adventurers.
Join yourself first if you think you’re clever enough to suss out issues and get a glimpse of how things operate and then if you do anything else organizing wise, encourage anyone inclines towards Marxists politics to join as well. I’m feeling stronger and stronger the more I think of this. If we can’t overhaul a party then we certainly can’t overthrow a system. I don’t really consider this a novel plan, it’s just doing what we should be doing if we’re ML. If you aren’t that’s it’s own thing but if you’re an ML and not a party member at you really?
So I was firing from the hip on my previous comment, but after thinking some more I think what I mostly responded to in this post is just being more involved in my local org in a general sense. I’ve shown up to a bunch of events hosted by different groups that I’m on the mailing list for but I’ve barely talked to anyone, I was a dues paying member of the DSA for a long time but I feel like I didn’t get much out of it. Don’t get me wrong I don’t regret going to protests or building community gardens or any of that stuff, but I’m gonna make it my new years resolution to fully commit a big chunk of my free time to at least one org and actually be a member of it for a while before I start planning my rise to the top to overthrow the revisionists and restore the proper ML line.
We are not revisionists and if you join without believing in the Party Program or Party Constitution you will likely be expelled.
In addition, its quite crucial that you know about the org you’re joining and that includes learning about how it operates and its history (and not just from the 1930s). If you want, I can provide you some resources.
They are not, I think. I’m a CPUSA member though.
Uh, that’s not really democratic centralism; what you’re doing is mass entryism and is unhealthy organizationally.
You should work with the elected leadership. We elected Joe Sims to combat people like John Bachtell.
We have a couple of conrads in CPUSA here who might be able to weigh in @[email protected]
Did John Bachtell do his usual thing this time?
We “support” the Communist Party of Israel (which is a Palestinian organization, despite its name) as well as the other Palestinian ML orgs in Israel/Palestine, just so you know, since they’re in SolidNet.
I don’t have my ADHD medication, unfortunately, due to foolishly using them to combat suicidal ideation recently.
I will try and see if I can type anything to combat misinformation on this topic, but unfortunately, I’m not feeling well without them.
Sorry to hear that comrade
Thank you!
If membership skyrockets and an influx of young people are voting against this shit in the party and calling it out in party meetings and having others there to back it up, we can totally topple the shitty old guard. Take it as your first revolutionary lesson, seize the party, don’t be a splitter.
You pretty much described the process DSA has been going through. I mildly optimistic that it will workout well
That’s not how it works and that’s how you divide the party further; I see no “shitty old guard.” We need continuity as well.
Whether that’s how it works or not, it’s what happening in DSA. Maybe I misunderstand you.
The “old guard” in DSA’s case would be the Harringtonites, who are self-ejecting from DSA. That’s what the “why I quit DSA” articles in the Nation, the New Republic etc were about this autumn.
Of course, it’d be better to win people like that over (and many have evolved in politics), but that’s not always possible.
Edit: to clarify, I don’t know enough about CPUSA to comment on it. My comment was only speaking on the dynamics in DSA lining up with the OP’s description, which I thought was interesting to note
Oh fair.
Yes, I don’t feel we have those dynamics in CPUSA, though you occasionally have people like John Bachtell, who has some good traits like his organizing acumen, but has otherwise, err, bad politics, tbh.
The people that have been here since the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 70s, 80s, and 90s have much to teach before, well, you know.
As I said previously in another thread:
"I’m not feeling my best.
I don’t have my ADHD meds, but will likely get them back in a few days.
So my apologies if my posts here are not at their tip-top shape."
I have a harder time doing things, focusing, and even reading so please understand this.
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