• Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    And yet people keep telling me that Biden needs to lose so that Democrats can be “taught a lesson.”

      • Binthinkin@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Yea this is probably correct. The braindead MAGATS think they’re smart. But they’re just incels who know nothing about economics.

      • SuperDuper@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Remember when they tried to be sneaky with the “walkaway” shit before the 2018 midterms? 😂

      • Mirshe@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Or they’re accelerationists who think a dictatorship will wind up in a civil war, and the “true” society, whatever their concept is, will be able to rise from the ashes.

          • Random_German_Name@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            I mean the social democrats had a similar slogan:

            “Governments come and go. […] After Hitler, we come to power! It will once again be the German republicans who will have to clean up the mess. We are preparing for that day!”

            • Karl Hölterman, the leader of the democratic militia „Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold“, 1933
      • FiveMacs@lemmy.ca
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        11 months ago

        Fuck Trump, but tbf people shouldn’t be allowed to be in office if they could die tomorrow from old age.

        • Fjaeger@sopuli.xyz
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          11 months ago

          It’s hard to understand for a non American, how it can be a Race between these two and only these two. This two party system seems so absurdly stubid. Not that we have it figured out anywhere else much better, but still.

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          11 months ago

          I mean, any president can die in office to be fair, regardless of age, hence we have a vice president to take over in such a case

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Isn’t Trump only like 3 years younger? By yhe end of his term he’d be older than Biden would be at the start of his.

          • Jaysyn@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            Biden also eats healthy & exercises every day. Trump hasn’t exercised since he was in his 30’s & has never seen a Big Mac he didn’t eat.

    • SinningStromgald@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Ah yes! Enlightened Centrist and Libertarians. They will always vote GOP no matter how horrible the candidate is with some shit reason to not vote Democrat. OR they will vote for some numbnuts third party candidate with an equally shitty reason.

      • Telorand@reddthat.com
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        11 months ago

        The common talking points these days are either, “DeMoCrAtS aRe FaScIsTs, ToO!” or, “DeMoCrAtS nEeD tO eArN mY vOtE!”

        And I’m sure the next generation will thank them for taking an ideological stand right as Fascism is trying to take over. /s

        • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          problem is your thinking lead to us getting to this point in the first place. y’all should have learned candidate quality matters in 2016 and it’s your fault if biden loses because he was your idea in the first place

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Too many Democrats are to be sure. But not all democrats. Sanders and others have shown the way to fix this. The biggest issue is that we need younger people involved and running. In my state many Republicans run unopposed for several offices. As bad as it sounds. I would reflexively vote for any Democrat over a republican knowing nothing about either of the two.

          • Telorand@reddthat.com
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            11 months ago

            We’re already seeing the beginnings of that with various candidates, but I agree that we need it to happen more rapidly.

            The issue, in a twist of capitalist fuckery, is that running a campaign is massively expensive, and the barrier to entry is often too high for the people who should be running for office. Thankfully, there’s orgs helping with that, but it’s still an uphill battle.

            • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              They can be. At the state and national level to be sure. But even with zero budget, running someone against a Republican vs letting a Republican run unopposed. We’ll win infinitely more times just by trying. It should start with smaller offices. And work up from there.

              Also, outside of presidential election years. We should donate to a group or groups that back and fund Democrat opposition to Republicans locally. Even if we have to make those groups ourselves. At the national level they’ve largely given up on many states. So donating to them often does little at home.

              Democrats need a new younger bench. And this is a way to fix both the age and fash friendly issues at the same time. Perhaps then we can start to address things like getting money out of politics etc.

          • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Forget running, they need to be voting.

            Sanders lost both primaries due to Millenials and Zoomers being so allergic to turnout that they even turn their noses up at their own guy in the primary.

            This is easy win territory for young voters, the gap between current performance and just matching their share of the general population alone would push the DNC significantly to the left, let alone if they started showing up with the easy dominating share they could take if they spent half the effort turning out for the cause that they do painting signs and tweeting about it.

            • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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              10 months ago

              primaries aren’t free and fail elections, we saw fuckery in 2016 and 2020. why vote when the party leaders can legally rig it?

              • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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                10 months ago

                Rigging it by actually turning out for those instead of throwing a tantrum that the other voting blocks who don’t agree with them didn’t do the revolution for them?

                The left’s perennial problem, “well why didn’t you fucking vote in (X previous election or primary) then?”, every time they try to blame it on something else, it flows back to some other primary or general they also vote striked or protest voted in.

                The narcissist’s prayer is a fucking Mayan calendar style political prophecy to the white left and doing even the barest minimum in the way of political participation

                Bernie had the primary win stolen from him alright, by on paper allies who have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do literally the first thing you should have to prove you did to be allowed to talk shit.

                Every single one of you fuckers I see ranting about rigged primaries is just some flavor of Jean Paul Marat wannabe who fantasizes about being able to literally sit but naked in a bath tub all day and pass judgement upon the enemies of the revolution for everyone else to carry out for you.

            • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              I think that Democrats appear very weak right now because they’re not taking the drastic steps that are needed in order to fix a lot of the existential threats that America faces.

              I truly believe that we cannot engage in capitalism as we are currently and still hold on to the planet in the face of global warming. And I don’t see anyone in US politics or even global politics willing to make the drastic changes needed to literally save for the planet.

              So no, I don’t really think they’re doing what they need to be doing right now, and it’s disheartening.

              • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                indeed. weak “left” candidates leave the door open for fascism the world over. how the fuck do you tell people to “hold their noses” and expect that to work? like really, think about it for a minute. I’m mad because these idiots are ruining our country. a progressive candidate would both be a safer bet to win vs. trump and some reforms would sap fascism of it’s power, yet we’re stuck with candidates like clinton and biden for no good reason. disappointing if they win, and less likely to actually win

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Centrist Democrats take the very idea as a greivously offensive blasphemy against all they hold dear.

      • Ranvier@sopuli.xyz
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        11 months ago

        Don’t vote Democrat, vote third party I hear! Me, I’m like well with first past the post voting this is impractical and could help empower fascists to take over, but let’s see what options we got.

        /opens box of third party candidates, before gently closing it and walking away

        Yeah no, Biden still best option, these guys are nutters. It makes sense though, a sensible candidate would run in the democratic primaries, rather than hurting their own purported causes by running in the general in a first past the post election. It’s why you saw Bernie Sanders, an independent, running in the democratic primary, and not out there helping to siphon votes to fascists by running as a third party in the general against Biden.

        Anyways, let’s focus on continuing to empower politicians that want to improve our voting system (usually has been democrats, though with an exception in Alaska). This starts at the local level, but we’re getting more and more federal offices now with ranked choice voting. Once you have that, then better quality third party candidates will follow, knowing they can fairly safely run without harming their own causes.

        • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          Biden can be the best option for you, and it can still be imperative that we vote third party. If you think the dems and repubs are ever going to give up FPTP, you’re insane.

          State ballot access is a big deal that can impact local elections as well.

      • PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        I show up to vote against Brownback and in support of abortion. Then I vote against every incumbent and to fire all the judges.

      • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Unfortunately, there are few leftists that push the same narrative, too. And all because Biden (or Obama, or Hillary) are not the pretty pony they think they were promised or something.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Point of fact: Clinton’s centrists were so upset that they didn’t get their very first choice in 2008 that they formed a PAC to try to get McCain/Palin elected. And they’ve been screaming “no matter who” ever since.

          • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            I have no special affinity for either of the Clintons. However, it cannot be denied that there is a certain type of leftist (often very loud, and probably the minority, thankfully) that behave like petulant children when they don’t get their pretty pony, whoever that is.

            Don’t get me wrong - I’d like that pretty pony, too. I just realize that even if people don’t love Hillary, she’d still be better than OJ (Orange Jesus) and so once the primaries are over, voting for donnie to really stick it to the man, or sit out, or vote for some completely unserious party like the Green Party is not really teaching anyone the lesson(s) that the people stamping their feet think they are.

            OJ represents a very existential threat. Just because he flubbed the RW agenda the first time around doesn’t mean he won’t succeed in destroying America if given another chance.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Don’t get me wrong - I’d like that pretty pony, too.

              The only thing you want is unquestioning worship of the party from everyone to your left.

              • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                LOL, I only vote for them because I have to. What is the realistic alternative? Unless we have something like ranked choice, voting for Green or staying home or writing something in is just a vote for Republicans.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  And you only choose to constantly belittle anyone who isn’t 100 percent ecstatic with everything the party does because you want to.

                  • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    So, I’m constantly belittling myself? I am not 100% ecstatic with the Democratic Party and never have been. Thing is, I recognize what an existential threat the Republican Party has become. In the general, the choice is you either support the Democratic Party (warts and all) or you are essentially supporting this threat to the country.

                    I wish it were otherwise, but wishing won’t make that so.

    • orclev@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I do worry that Biden will lose though. He was far from a popular candidate to begin with and his support of Israel’s genocide of Palestinians has made him even less so. In many ways the best outcome might be for him to die in office prior to the election or for him to lose the primary. It would hurt the Democrats to have a non-incumbent running, but possibly less than running Biden. The real wildcard though is if Trump will even end up on the ballot considering his legal issues.

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        11 months ago

        I do worry that Biden will lose though.

        Good. Everybody should think this. Thinking Trump can’t possibly win is how he won in 2016.

        We need to behave as if it’s a real possibility, even if you feel optimistic about next year.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          We need to behave as if it’s a real possibility, even if you feel optimistic about next year.

          Party leadership should also be doing this and doing what they can to win voters. Instead, the only message I’m hearing is “if you breathe so much as a word of discontent, it’s because you’re a Russian troll who wants Trump to be dictator for life.”

      • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        It would hurt the Democrats to have a non-incumbent

        If Biden were not on the ballot next year, the Democratic candidate would be Kamala Harris. No mainstream Democrat would challenge her in 2024, the optics would be horrible.

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            11 months ago

            Doesn’t really matter if she is well liked, no other Democrat will challenge her in 2024. For starters, it is too late to get on the primary ballot.

            • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              I feel like in most cases “the incumbent croaked” would suffice as an excuse to get some names on the board, also, maybe Kamala turns out to be the second coming of LBJ, so we’ll get some pretty good social programs everyone’s gonna forget about eventually, some significant expansions in civil rights, but also entanglement in an unpopular conflict, venturing a guess I’ll say defending Somalia Eritrea and Djibouti from invasion by Ethiopia.

              Israel is unpopular enough, but being on the side of a dictatorship and a failed state that tries to force its control onto a breakaway that self governs at least better than its former fellow countrymen, all in the name of international law and order, feels like the kind of conflict Kamala would be involved in, and that folks would have misgivings over, most because “why are we sending our troops to defend a dictator?” and that select group everyone loves spouting off how you should withold from voting over it because something something respecting national sovereignty as well as the clear results in favor of independence in a fair referendum run by Ethiopia is colonialism just like how not letting Russia eat neighbors because something something little russians is colonialism.

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                11 months ago

                I feel like in most cases “the incumbent croaked” would suffice as an excuse

                Primaries aren’t run by excuses, they are run by rules. There are state laws regarding who can get on a ballot, Biden/Harris qualified, and Whitmer did not. Which means that when the primaries roll around, Biden/Harris will be on the state ballots, and Whitmer won’t. Which means that throughout the primary season, Biden/Harris will be racking up delegates who are loyal to Biden/Harris.

                If anything happens to Biden at this point, his delegates will vote for Harris at the nominating convention. Why? Because they were chosen specifically for that purpose. You only get to be a primary delegate for Biden/Harris 2024 if you are a strong supporter of both Biden and Harris. Specifically if you support them a lot more than Whitmer, Newsom, etc. If you have doubts about either Biden or Harris, then the Biden/Harris campaign will find someone else to be a delegate. All this means Whitmer has no chance at becoming the nominee as long as Harris is still around.

                As for the rest: yes, Harris might be a great president. But most people who want a different Democratic candidate do not realize that she is the only alternative for 2024.

    • agent_flounder@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      The way that talking point gets pushed unusually hard by an unusually dedicated few using the same stupid arguments looks an awful lot like the kind of psyops campaigns I’d see when I was on Reddit during the Trump presidency.

      The real long term solution is changing how we vote. Star Voting or some form of Ranked Choice. That’s how I respond along with https://fairvote.org so, in case some impressionable soul happens along, they aren’t taken in by such silliness. I encourage others to consider doing something similar.

    • Ð Greıt Þu̇mpkin@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      My Roman Empire is remembering how the shitheads screamed and yelled denying responsibility on the day Dobbs came down.

      Was grocery shopping with my grammy and had to pull the most hemmeroid passingly determined poker face in history to not break out into cursing them and their obvious waste of what privileges they live with to be in the position of treating this like it’s teaching the DNC a lesson.

      Fucking Priv Shit Vote Karens, every last one of them, “Take me to the party’s manager right now or I’ll let the fascists take away even more of your rights!”

        • Aabbcc@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          Ok you’re being out played when your best move is vote Biden

          • Jaysyn@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            Tell me you don’t understand how party politics & voting work without telling me you don’t understand how party politics & voting work.

            • Aabbcc@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              “I’m not owned that’s just how the game is played”

              -person who’s totally getting owned

        • Aabbcc@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          It’s not obvious, please explain why not. He’s worse for their chance of winning.

      • Habahnow@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        They all ran before the 2020 election, people mainly liked Biden. (I voted Bernie). The time to get a better candidate than Biden was then, changing things up would be a huge risk for Democrats and would help Trump (R’s can’t easily say Biden is insane and take their away their rights, unlike a new candidate which they can say is the bogeyman). This is the exact same reason Trump ran basically unopposed for his 2nd term, its generally the best idea in the US’s system vs picking another candidate. If you care about how “bad” Biden is, then vote in the next general and help out the best candidate.

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        11 months ago

        Depends how cynical you feel today.

        IMO it’s either:

        • The DNC believes anyone too progressive will get stomped in the general election

        • Don’t forget, Dems would be conservatives in most other countries. As much as I hate to say it, I’m not convinced most of them aren’t just as beholden to corporate interests as R is.

        OR

        Probably a little of both of those actually. Also, maybe a dash of - boomers are going to control our politics until a bunch more boomer voters and boomer politicians die of old age.

      • dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        They can and I wish they would, but it’s too late this election. Anyone else would have two weeks or so to get on the ballot and get name recognition and get people to like what they’re doing. Not really sure that’s possible.

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      10 months ago

      it’s because of people defending biden’s atrocities. like, there’s more than one person you can run, and most of the options could poll better vs. trump.

    • crusa187@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Biden needs to deliver on at least one campaign promise - be a 1 term President, and drop out of the race now, so we don’t risk the election.

      His ego, nor the desires of his donors, are not worth sacrificing democracy.

        • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Is Lemmy really loading whole images when loading a site, even though I can’t enlarge them without actually going to actual image source? What a good way to waste data.

          • AA5B@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Only on the internet:one side of the argument posts a lengthy list of facts, and the response is simply “fuck all”

              • GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website
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                11 months ago

                unsourced images on a random post in the fediverse

                Bottom right of the image literally reads: “List source: whatbidenhasdone.wordpress.com

                The site isn’t as thorough with sourcing from there, but they have a blog post with various sources cited, and their twitter account is full of sources for their claims.

                • PreviouslyAmused@lemmy.ml
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                  11 months ago

                  No I mean a source that is easily and clearly placed in front of me that I can still complain about not being the “correct” sources. /s

                  • GoodbyeBlueMonday@startrek.website
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                    11 months ago

                    Funnily enough, I already noted in my comment that the wordpress site didn’t cite as well as I’d like. They do however have a number of sources for many of their claims (I outlined where you can find those, if you’re interested).

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            11 months ago

            The Inflation Reduction Act was a big deal internationally, but I feel like you and I have already talked about it, so I don’t want to rehash it.

            For everyone else’s safe, I’ll just say that even though it isn’t enough, Biden still achieved a historic level of funding for sustainability with the IRA, to the point that it forced European countries to pass similar legislation so their green energy companies could still be competitive with US green energy companies. I would’ve preferred to see legislation like this 15-20 years ago, but the second best time is always the present.

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            11 months ago

            The man has kept plenty of campaign promises. Pretending he’s done nothing for the American people at every level is just dishonest. People have the right to express bullshit if they choose, and I have an equal right to call it out.

          • Habahnow@sh.itjust.works
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            11 months ago

            Like which things in particular? Biden has done things, and having an image with BS undermines his actual accomplishments.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Wait, you not only want him to be a one-term president, you don’t even want him to finish his term? We get President Harris until 2024?