Liquidate Musk
Well, besides the moral obligations to stop fascism right now, at least reconsider whether such unsafe vehicles should be allowed on the roads. Them lobbying against it should not work anymore.
Let’s start small. Have the federal government remove the twitter/x link for contacting the federal government on the federal government website.
Tesla is tearing itself apart all on its own. We can just watch and not implicate ourselves.
Seize the property and transfer it to Canada National Electric Vehicle Company. Then convert the facilities to build High Speed Rail instead of clunky individualist electric vehicles. Finally, build a rail artery all the way from Vancover to Quebec and bill yourself as a low-cost high-speed transit route that bypasses the United States.
Quebec
Halifax.
Build it and they will come. You don’t build a bridge based on how many people are swimming across the river.
Canada is all but officially at war with the States, it’s time to think about what are acts of treason. Muskrat acts with more authority than even the VP.
Canada is all but officially at war with the States
Let me know when there’s a single casualty. Otherwise, maybe don’t trivialize war as an economic pissing contest.
Cold war possibly?
This is literally Canadian Bacon. It was funny then but its a circus now.
The USSR wasn’t spread in a thin paste over the top of its adversary.
I think its more like thick maple syrup.
You don’t have to do that. Remove tariffs on Chinese EVs, and the market will ruin Tesla on its own.
Yeah, unfortunately we’re investing tens of billions into EV manufacturing. Another major investment from Siemens was announced just this morning. If we drop those very justified tariffs, we won’t have an EV industry in Canada anymore. As long as the Chinese government is heavily subsidizing BYD research and production, tariffs are appropriate to balance the playing field. Otherwise our nacent industry will get smothered in the crib.
Wow, no kidding, we have 100% tarrifs on chinese EV and 25% chinese aluminium.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-china-electric-vehicles-1.7486204
If it comes to it, Canadians might have to seek alliance with China, and that’s something neither americans nor canadians really want.
Yea let’s not do what we always do by switching from one bad thing to the thing we know is worse because “change” while better solutions exist. China also threatens sovereignty, supplies Russia, and even works with North Korea. They have even worse labour issues than the US does, though oddly they seem to do alright with trans rights. The concentration camps for Uyghurs does offset that last bit, though.
I wish we had more brains than “frying pan hot, must jump into fire”.
switching from one bad thing to the thing we know is worse
How is an EV worse because of its nation of origin?
China also threatens sovereignty, supplies Russia, and even works with North Korea.
China is in no way impugning on Canadian sovereignty. They’re doing business with Russia just like every single other Asiatic Nation, from South Korea to India to Turkyie - none of which are undergoing comparable sanctions.
Which is particularly galling, given that South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol used “Secret North Korean election interference” as his excuse to launch a coup on Parliament just a couple of months ago.
China also has detained Canadian citizens several times in the past and it has been major issues trying to get them back here. That alone probably isn’t enough to warrant such extreme sanctions, but their disregard for many human rights is a problem we all face unless we’re shitty, selfish, nationalist assholes at which point that opinion ceases to hold much weight.
South Korea showed us that when someone in power tries to do a crazy thing the country as a wholw will actually do something to stop them. Yoon Suk Yeol was impeached and that whole thing is still ongoing, with the court to rule on that on Friday so I’m not sure why you think that’s a gotcha.
China also has detained Canadian citizens
In Beijing, while operating as intelligence assets to the detriment of the country.
Kovrig was considered an intelligence asset, as a diplomatic officer at the Global Security Reporting Program (GSRP) within the Canadian embassy in Beijing, and later when based in Hong Kong at International Crisis Group, according to a 2023 report
This appears to be in direct response to the Canadian arrest and prosecution of Huawei’s chief financial officer, Meng Wanzhou, who was visiting Canada on business and was arrested with intent to extradite her to the US. That arrest was in pursuit of a US sanction against Iran, another country whose people were chronically subjected to infiltratation, sabotage, and assassination by Western security and paramilitary forces.
What this had to do with Canadian Sovereignty is not clear. Are Canadian spies arrested on Chinese soil in reprisal for the seizure and extradition of a Chinese businesswoman a threat to Canadian Independence? Because it seems to be the absolute opposite.
South Korea showed us that when someone in power tries to do a crazy thing the country as a wholw will actually do something to stop them
The South of Korea has been under occupation by American military and intelligence services since the 1950s. This particular president’s coup attempt threatened the interests of American State officials, so the Korean military friendly with the US allowed the coup to fail. But the parliament has done little to curb a future Yoon or Park administration from returning to power in the next election cycle, under a far more coup-favorable Trump State Department.
The problem is we probably need one of them? Their economies are massive and America’s by far the biggest. Unless we want our economy to shrink. Like it or not they are the two biggest fish in the pond.
So we strengthen our connections with Europe, then, and ourselves. Yes, it will be harder than just flip-flopping between two bad options but that is literally the point I’m trying to make.
Look at our current setup: The Conservatives are garbage and the only good things the Liberals seem to do are things that the coalition with the NDP forced them to do. The NDP, however, is treated like they’re a non-starter option because they have fewer seats even though they got more than half of the Liberal or Conservative votes even with strategic voting being a thing. The Bloc got more seats while having slightly more than half the NDP votes.
We just keep bouncing between terrible options like stupid little reactionaries because it feels easier than doing anything that will genuinely help us.
better yet, lets rebuild any factories to produce parts and vehicles for a nationalised electric vehicle company, to produce entry level electric vehicles so people can actually afford these fucking things.
How about we don’t waste all of that money and resources and invest in mass public nation wide transit instead.
whos to say this facility couldnt produce components for that system as well?
whos to say this facility couldnt produce components for that system as well?
Most people with a working knowledge of how production facilities operate and who know the difference between cars and trains.
my elecrtronic engineering degree is laughing at you from across the room right now.
Whatever you say month old lemmy world account.
Manufacturing is not coming back to the west. Capitalism will always seek for cheaper labor and more lax environmental regulations. We have outsourced manufacturing and pollution to developing countries while charging as much as possible to their customers.
This is why when people discuss this subject, and use terms like “we need to”, a big part of me knows it’s just that they “want to”. A huge chunk of what we feel is necessity is, at best, “comfort subsidies” for our cushy lifestyles (and lest I be accused of tone deafness, I mean cushy in comparison to those in the developing countries you mentioned. “Less polluted and oppressed for the comfort of others” cushy). While it’s true that too much change too soon means lots of people starve, I don’t really think we actually know what we need.
to produce entry level electric vehicles so people can actually afford these fucking things.
The problem is that supporting car infrastructure always results in a loss for society. Building more roads for cars, wider roads for cars (i.e. more lanes), more parking for cars… is such a drain on funding that you never catch up.
If you live in a municipality that doesn’t have enough money for basic services, it’s because of the money needed to support car infrastructure. Sounds crazy, but it’s true.
As a country, we should de-prioritize cars as a means of transportation, but also as an industry that we rely too heavily on.
If Canadian manufacturing could diversify into other areas of transportation (i.e. affordable, Made in Canada e-bikes and e-cargo bikes) or putting our manufacturing efforts into building trains and public transportation vehicles… we would strengthen our economy while helping people, and it wouldn’t be at a loss!
i agree to an extent, but we cant pretend that the wide space between cities, and rural towns doesnt exist. nor our very cold weather. making ebikes essentially useless for long distance commuters who already have to drive 30 minutes to 1.5 hours one way going 100km per hour. now imagine doing that same trip on an ebike in the middle of january where you can only go 35km to 50km max. this also neglects people with disabilities who otherwise are fine using their own vehicle when they have bo access to public transportation.
we simply do not have the infrastructure in this century. maybe some day. i hope. if we dont blow ourselves up first and stop electing people whos idea of progress is cutting programs that build a greener future.
by all means though, get an ebike if its feasible for you in your life style. just dont assume its the answer to everyone elses, we havent reached utopia level tech and production levels yet, lol.
The problem is our cities. I know everyone says look at what x European country does. But our cities are far to spread out and densely populated to even compare fairly. We need to stop the endless spread and start infilling our cities.
For sure, we need to work on that. But most people aren’t travelling across their province, or even between cities on a regular basis.
They drive their cars around their community. Down the street to the grocery store. Up the road to visit a friend. They might work within 5km of their home and take a large SUV.
That’s the reason we have massive parking lots taking up ungodly amount of space, or on street parking instead of bike lanes, or noise and air pollutions near residential areas.
Those personal choices can be modified today, even with whatever infrastructure is present.
And most people don’t realize that if we weren’t spending so much money on car infrastructure, we’d have more than enough to put towards other forms of transportation - at a benefit to society, which also reduces costs in other areas like healthcare.
Just because one step doesn’t get you to your destination, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take that first step.
Bikes aren’t practical in a large number of Canadian cities, especially ones with -30 degree seasons. They aren’t practical for disabled people. They aren’t practical for families with young children.
A lack of road infrastructure also hobbles emergency services such as ambulances. It reduces the ability of trucks to deliver goods to stores. It reduces the ability for utility crews to service utilities such as power lines and sewers.
There are a lot of potential issues with aggressively pursuing what you envision. At the very least you’d need to massively re-work city design and zoning, rebuild a ton of stuff. That will take time. Shifting to electric cars will take less time, and be a net ‘win’ for the environment, generally speaking. I see no issue with the first persons response saying we should try to make evs in country.
Just because one step doesn’t get you to your destination, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take that first step.
But the first step shouldn’t be to focus on car manufacturing… again.
Bikes aren’t practical in a large number of Canadian cities, especially ones with -30 degree seasons. They aren’t practical for disabled people. They aren’t practical for families with young children.
Says who? With the appropriate infrastructure (i.e. like what you see in Montreal), you can have cycling year-round. Hell, I’m not from Montreal, and have used my bike all winter for errands.
And last summer, I was hauling two grandkids around by bike. It’s not hard.
Cars are unaffordable, and will continue to be for most people. Even families who can “afford” a car, are being hurt by their dependency.
And taxpayers all lose when cars are the focus of our transportation network.
A lack of road infrastructure also hobbles emergency services such as ambulances. It reduces the ability of trucks to deliver goods to stores. It reduces the ability for utility crews to service utilities such as power lines and sewers.
I didn’t say we should reduce our roads to dirt paths and let it all crumble. But we don’t need 18 lane highways or 2 lanes of parking on a four lane road… we are building too much to support gridlock by inducing demand.
Emergency vehicles and delivery trucks benefit by having FEWER drivers on the road. This is a fact.
There are a lot of potential issues with aggressively pursuing what you envision. At the very least you’d need to massively re-work city design and zoning, rebuild a ton of stuff. That will take time.
No, it really doesn’t. What takes time (and money) is road widening, constant road repair, figuring out what homes to demolish to make room for another road we don’t need to build.
Cities and countries that have de-prioritized cars have done so very quickly and with massive benefits to their communities. See Montreal, Paris, any city in the Netherlands, Vancouver, Columbia (the country!), etc.
It costs much less to build out cycling and public transportation, and it can be done much faster than building out infrastructure just for cars.
Shifting to electric cars will take less time, and be a net ‘win’ for the environment, generally speaking. I see no issue with the first persons response saying we should try to make evs in country.
That’s not true at all. We don’t need or want people making short trips in an EV. It still puts the community at risk (crashes), it still degrades the road surface, it contributes MORE to “tire dust”, still keeps people inactive, still keeps the poor at a disadvantage, still removed “community” from our communities. It’s just not a path forward.
I’m not saying we need an all-or-nothing solution. We need to rebalance our transportation network and make transportation more equitable and easier to access. There’s no reason why the majority of Canadians can’t walk, bike, or bus their way around town for the majority of their errands.
Europe has shown cars and pedestrians can co-exist peacefully, it’s all about planning. Major arteries can still be made for cars, while capillaries are made for foot. Residential roads can be closed off to cars except with special license eg ambulance deliveries, you DO need cars, nobody denying that.
There’s a lot of wasted space by making every house have their direct access to the road, their own parking. Sure, Canada has lots of space, but eventually we’ll run out. It’s not done with any future planning, the government is not thinking at all of how to connect cities by transit, or how cities could be accessible inside. It’s just a lack of political will, and a lack of imagination, it’s like the government has already resigned to mediocrity.
I play Cities Skylines and personally see how traffic flows better when i use a “lung” road system, with residental areas as isolated cells, rather than a grid system. We DON’T need high-throughput roads everywhere, and have to stop every 50 meters at intersections. We can do better, i’m sure we have very smart road engineers.
The problem maybe more so in the west is our cities are massive and have no density. That is the first thing to work on. Then we can have maybe decent public transit.
“If you live in one of Canada’d largest cities, ebikes work great!”
Just another item on the “fuck people in smaller towns and rural Canadians, I want mine” wishlist, I see.
I don’t understand the objection.
People living in rural areas of Canada represent less than 16% of the population (and even fewer drivers, since that number includes children).
Everyone else lives close enough to “everything” and don’t need to use their car for “everything”.
And people living in cities or the suburbs for sure don’t need a large truck.
And people in rural areas don’t need 4 lane stroads.
So where is this huge need to continue building things out for more cars?
For what it’s worth, I’m often in rural Ontario… On my non-electric bike. Unless I’m hauling a thousand pounds, it seems more than reasonable to see an ebike work quite well in those areas, too.
If you need to use a car or truck, then use a car or truck. Most people don’t for the majority of their trips.
Prove it with a fully costed source / platform. Maybe push it to the green party. Run for election.
Otherwise your stated dissent against my points basically amounts to is just two assholes arguing on the internet, with both getting covered in shit.
Personally I think Toronto should focus on finishing their damn light rail expansions instead of proposing a giant new tunnel for cars under the city that will cost billions and solve nothing.
There is only one asshole here and it isn’t the person you are responding to or who is currently responding to you.
I’ve had enough discussions with people on lemmy so far, where they demand I source/cite a bunch of stuff, while they choose not to cite anything. So I’m not overly fussed, and I find your response kinda funny given how the site seems to trend.
I’m fine with people stating opinions and not sourcing stuff, but to that effect it doesn’t make all that much sense to try and pick apart an opposing opinion without citing things, if you’re wanting to get into a back and forth. If people want to ‘dream’ about some ‘Freedom city’ that’s designed with eco sustainability in mind from the ground up, that’s great, but it’d need to stay in the realm of fantasy until it’s costed/proven viable.
Like in his response he goes on about montreal’s infrastructure, but doesn’t acknowledge that Quebec receives the most in equalization payments by far as a province – the amount of money that province receives, as the second largest in the country, has often been a bone of contention from the West. Most likely if they have the funds to build a bunch of that stuff in Montreal, it’s because of these sorts of uneven supports driven by the federal parties wanting to cozy up to Quebec, moreso than it being realistically viable for a small town in northern BC/Alberta. I don’t need to “prove” that explicitly, because I’m not the one arguing Montreal as the poster child of his approach – so he/she/they should be providing that information in more detail for consideration, if wanting to convince readers that ditching cars is the way to go.
There’s an old line where extreme claims require extreme evidence/proof – so on this one, calling for abandoning cars, is a far more extreme change than saying we should switch to in-canada EV production. The onus of providing evidence is on the other poster.
Maybe I misread the other guy’s opinion, but how is not putting cars at #1 priority the same as “abandoning cars?”
Cars, public transportation, bikes, and pedestrians can coexist. But it’s not gonna happen of we keep prioritizing cars is what, I believe, OP was saying.
No one cares.
Yes, but don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
Edit: oops, replied to something else.
I agree that we should still be making as much as we can here, even if they are cars. But lets not make the same mistake we already have… by putting all our eggs into the automotive basket. Cars and car infrastructure are hurting this country.
Affordable EVs already exist.
They’re called e-bikes and they cost less to purchase than car insurance for a year.
That’s all well and good if you only have to transport yourself, and only have to go a few kilometres. Being a smug prick because you don’t have any place to be or anyone else to bring with you does absolutely nothing to promote your cause to others.
I take my kid to daycare every day on my ebike. It’s only 5km one way, but I used to do 14km pedal power when I lived in Montréal.
I don’t do it to be a smug prick, I do it because it’s faster than driving.
Frankly, the infrastructure choices in my city (Kingston) make driving on average slower than 30kph. If bicycles weren’t also stuck in traffic lights (same thing that slows all the cars) cycling would be faster than driving is now, and driving would be faster than it is now. Basically our problem is traffic lights.
Not OP - their smugness didn’t help and you can use whatever means of transport you prefer. But to be fair, I do know people who have kids and use a cargo bike to do everything. This is a viable option for many city-dwellers. Sadly, we are still very car dependant in Canada for longer trips since rail between cities has been underinvested in and suburban sprawl is out of control.
Almost every trip inside cities, between cities, and even to some rural places could be done with alternatives to cars.
I know it can be hard to imagine a world where cars get minimized to filling a small niche role in a broader transportation system, especially when today most people in Canada and the US think cars are synonymous with mobility. Other countries have shown that car lite/free lifestyles are not only be possible with today’s technology, but desirable.
The alternatives are more space efficient - meaning less traffic congestion, they’re better for the environment, and people’s health and wellbeing.
Even if you’re one of the few who insists on keeping your car, wouldn’t it be nice to give safe, viable, and reliable alternatives to everyone else who doesn’t want to drive so they can get out of your way on the roads?
That and I’m still not convinced the cold doesn’t ruin the batteries on these things. I keep my e-scooter indoors until the temperature is consistently above zero, which sucks in Canada.
I bring my bike battery indoors during the day below -10°, but it overnights about 0° all winter.
I’ve been riding my e-scooter all winter and haven’t had any noticeable issues with battery life or health, if that means anything. Ninebot Kickscooter E2 if you’re wondering.
I’m just doing it out of precaution, I know most electronics and especially batteries don’t like the cold. I had an iphone that was never the same after it shut down on me in really cold weather so its more of a precaution.
Yeah, that’s fair.
My e-scooter loses a lot of range even in single digit positive numbers. I can’t imagine using it in sub-zero weather and I need my range to get to work and back without bringing my charger with me.
Don’t give them ideas they might try to socialize or worse… procreate
They also existed before that. They were called trams and nearly every city had them.
Facts, interesting histories in how those came to and passed in North America.
not practical for many canadian cities – especially ones further north, with temps frequently around -30 degrees. Also not practical for disabled folks.
Also not practical in areas of higher crime, as we dont have secure ‘parking’ options.
I biked year round in Yellowknife. It was easier and faster than plugging in, then preheating, then driving in the winter. At least for in town, I’d only bike into the bush in the summer, but then again I’d use the sled in the winter, not a car.
Disabilities is fair, but what about the 25% of Canadians who’s disabilities preclude then from driving?
Secure parking is also legitimate, but that’s an infrastructure choice; we choose subsidize fucktons of car parking all over the place already.
Ok look. Just because you’re part polar bear, likely covered in a thick coat of fur to withstand the frozen death tundra of the north, doesn’t mean us regular normies can do it.
I was far from the only person winter cycling in Yellowknife, nor Ottawa, nor Montréal, and now, nor Kingston (though I had a -25° cut off this winter due to bringing my toddler around; I chose the temperature because that’s when kids stop having reccess outside).
One of Canada’s biggest cyclist YouTubers is from Calgary. Montréal has a ton of people winter cycling (and a low barrier to entry now that bixis are available in the winter). Edmonton has cyclist coffee hour year round on the bike paths. Winnipeg has a big winter cycling community as well (that’s second hand though, ive never been there). It’s been to long for my to speak intelligibly on how Ottawa winter cycling is going.
Maybe it’s my bias as an immigrant to Canada, but the number of people that think being outside in the winter is somehow impossible is mind blowing. I was fed that this country was founded on rugged individuals who brave the elements to eke out a living. This makes Canadians hardy, kind, and enduring. Instead I look at Xth generations and many have fallen into a contemptuous malaise where winter is somehow something to be endured, rather than embraced and enjoyed.
If you think that being outside is impossible, that’s fine. I don’t know you, your history, or your limitations. But if you’re interested in reconsidering your preconception, I’d recommend the book Frostbike by Tom Babin. Children play outside until at least -25° across the country, and colder the further north you go; the rest of us can too.
The problem with this argument is it’s preventing infrastructure improvements for everyone else who CAN bike/walk/take the train/bus/whatever.
I don’t bike because it’s just not safe to do in my area due to car traffic and a lack of bike infrastructure. I would bike and take public transit more if I could.
The maybe 20% of people who are disabled or have other reasons to need a car (like moving large items) can continue using the now much less congested roads, while the rest of people are on alternative transportation.Shifting to a bike-centric cityscape is a huge shift in infrastructure, if you start mapping out all the components that need to come together for it to happen at this stage. Like I live in Vancouver, where our council has for a few decades put a heavy priority on building segregated bike lanes and connecting paths that are pretty well totally removed from cars. I happily ride my ebike around the seawall during the spring/summer/fall a couple times a week. The weather is mild, albeit rainy, pretty well all year. The terrain is generally pretty darn flat. We’ve had local e-bike vendors for a long time. We have bike share stations provided by Rogers (formerly Shaw) along most major transit routes. That’s still not enough to make vancouver into a bike-primary transportation city. Hell, with reports of ebike batteries exploding periodically, one thing you’d need to add in is mandatory secure ebike parking in condo buildings (we recently had an apt building go up because of it, causing something like 24 people to become homeless) – which’d mean all the older buildings would need to retrofit things. The list just goes on and on.
And again, in the context of “change all cities in the country to preference ebikes and alternative transport” vs “build EVs in Canada”, the former is far more drastic. So if someone wants to put it forward as a realistic/plausible option, beyond just fantasy, they need to really spell out how it’d function, the cost variances / savings they claim would occur, and all that jazz. I’d love to see how it’d be economical for tiny towns in northern BC/Alberta to switch to e-bikes as a primary mode of transport, I just don’t think it’s realistic. It’s the more extreme position to take, so someone should back it up. And, like I said earlier, if they can do that they ought to pitch it to the greens.
I don’t ride a bike because that’s stupid.
But then the government would be forced to backtrack on the multi billion dollar investment it made in big auto companies to keep manufacturing jobs from flocking to the US (nationalizing would cause us to compete with them and undermine the support provided).
I still think this choice was a mistake, but voters gonna voter on single issue politics.
Fucking lol. What kind of utopian delusional shit is this?
The mental hurdles you’d have to do to think Canada would steal an American companies infrastructure, kick them out and then use what they stole to begin making some sort of government owned electric vehicle company?
To a population of 40 million?
Bro, it’s like I like the overall sentiment but it just sounds wild.
The government subsidized a loooooot of that infrastructure.
That was dumb of them.
Sure? It was based on cooperating with a trading partner that was sound of mind. Makes nationalizing easier though.
