At a certain point, eventually, the voters in Florida have to say enough is enough, right?
Can a state be majority racist, homophobic, anti woman and pro ignorance forever? Is that what 51% of Floridians really want?
If it’s anything like Ohio it doesn’t matter what the majority wants. The republicans have drawn the maps so that they can control everything even with like 45% of the vote
At the very least it shouldn’t get them a republican governor.
Maps don’t, but vote suppression does
Maps absolutely do as does vote suppression. It can be both
Sorry, this was specifically about gubernatorial elections - unless you have some sort of weird state electoral college thing (which IIRC only exists in Mississippi and even there only sort-of), those are generally done with a statewide popular vote, and thus independent of district maps.
By creating barriers in certain districts it’s going to disproportionally going to affect those people, for example long lines, changing someone’s voting district, removing someone’s registration. There are tons of ways.
Right. Voter suppression. That’s what they said.
Is that what gerrymandering is?
They could just change the state constitution to allow state legislature to appoint the governor.
the Florida state constitution requires a statewide vote to approve an amendment with 60% of the vote. If they couldn’t get a governor elected they couldn’t amend the constitution either.
Voters in Florida saying “That’s enough racism” is like me at the Olive Garden saying “That’s enough parmesan”. It’s never gonna happen without severe civil unrest.
Olive Garden gives me civil unrest.
Olive Garden gives me unrest and the result is not civil.
Your comment made me giggle on this lovely Thursday in July. Thanks friend.
Fascism is an ideology that rewards people for being the worst version of themselves.
With every evil act they perform they feel better about themselves. These people are just getting started.
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Rewriting history to justify slavery is absolutely a fascist act.
Yeah my post wasn’t pointed at anybody here. Just made me think of all the instances where each side calls the other fascist. I think most of us here realize who the real fascists are…
Well, at best only half the people actually know what the word actually means.
Sad but true
On the other hand, one side is adopting fascist methods and ideology while the other side are democrats. What Republicans are doing is using dilution language, and you’ve fallen for it .
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Could you expand on that? I want to be clear that this isn’t a bOtH sIdEs argument I’m making here. I’m pointing out that “both sides” call each other the same thing but it’s clear to me that one side really is engaging in fascist acts while the other isn’t. The opposite of the bOtH sIdEs argument really…
It’s the horseshoe theory of politics. Both far ends of the spectrum have more in common with each other (being basically fascists) than they really have differences (different core issues they rally their fascism around).
Both only really look at the other’s extreme, and see fascism, but aren’t self aware enough to see their own. Or they dismiss their own as only the extremists, not realizing how this may apply to the other side.
Being fascist on the right is not extreme. Look at the laws they’re passing. That is absolutely not the case for the left.
Far from not knowing what fascism means, I suspect you don’t even know what left/right means. Unless you’re just doing a horseshoe theory bit.
This could be fun though.
Please compare and contrast the distinguishing features of “left fascism” vs “right fascism.”
I was really just doing a horseshoe theory bit. I’m willing to accept the downvotes since I didn’t feel like stating my personal thoughts on the current political situation added to the intent of that comment.
Edit: thanks for editing your comment after I replied. Though maybe it was just a delay in federating the edit. The only bit of “both sides” that I’ll say is that some people on both sides have attempted to silence nonviolent opinions. This really isn’t saying much, considering that in any large discourse some idiots will always do this on every side. One side is actually banning books and trying to rewrite history in blatantly false ways.
Well, thanks for owning up, but you know there are ppl who’ll read that and go “yeah those goddamn fascist lefties” without a second thought. Please don’t reinforce that.
As for violence… I think it’s worth considering when it would be justified, or even necessary as self-defense. As you say, one side is clearly the aggressor here.
I understand where you’re coming from on the first part, but I’m not sure how I feel about silencing anything that’s true as a strategy in… Anything. I get how it helps, and I’m not saying I don’t keep quiet on little things throughout life, but ideally I’d like to live in a world where wrongs are always acknowledged. The problem is getting people to understand the relative prevalence and weights of those wrongs in reality.
I struggle with my opinion on violent action all the time. A lot of the time I see nonviolent protest as increasingly irrelevant in the modern world. But I also worry about what society will be if we accept various levels of violence. I know it’s a slippery slope argument, but justifying anything can honestly be really easy, and any line we draw can be argued to be arbitrary. Currently I think rhetoric that’s inciting violence is something I’ll generally frown upon, and I lean towards accepting that that’s outside of a societally good right to free speech.
It’s what 40% of them want…they can buy the other 11%.
Who controls the past controls the future.
Who controls the present now, controls the past.
I recognise RATM when I read it 🤘 🤘 🤘 🤘 🤘
This reminds me about that time Frank Burns learns about time zones.
FL is literally filled with huge amount of morons from all over the country as a retirement haven. Rotten scumbags from all the other states.
DeSantis’ approval rating has fallen off a cliff, and is continuing to fall, albeit more slowly.
So likely yes, they’ll say enough is enough eventually, and I think we’ve already passed that point. Stuck with him for a while longer though.
DeSantis won by less than 20k votes. There is no way this shitshow doesn’t prompt a big turnout yo oust him. Then we can expect more stolen election claim bullshit.
It might be worth noting that Florida has consecutive term limits for their governor (for now, anyway.) Desantis can’t run again this next election. (He can for the one after that, though.)
Um…no. DeSantis won reelection by the largest margin in Florida in 40 years. He’s wildly popular, or at least was as of a couple years ago.
Not sure how you got <20k when he won by more than 1.5 million
Oh my sweet summer child…
It takes effort to educate yourself. Far too many people are happy to be comfortably dumb.
Universities in other states need to loudly proclaim they will not accept Florida high school graduates fed this horseshit. “Does not meet prerequisites for higher education.” You want to be Confederate Jesusland? Fine, but there’s a cost. Employers need to do the same thing.
That’s only going to hurt the kids who want out of that shithole state. They didn’t choose to grow up there. And even if it’s comparable to a hyper religious private school education, colleges aren’t blanket denying students from those, same with homeschool kids. It may be necessary to offer remedial classes, but colleges are already doing that for math.
The kids will already be hurt … It’s a question of acknowledgment or if other institutions decide to ignore their deficiencies. (And, in admitting them, risk others students being subjected to their brainwashed viewpoints)
That sort of happens anyway. Kids taught creationism get laughed out of Biology 101 and have to spend some semesters passing Bio for Boneheads, where they unlearn all the creation myths and get a truth bath of evolution.
US History is important for poly sci majors and law majors, so yeah some might have to make sure they can pass exams or explain how we were late among western nations to end slavery (and use truck systems, exploitation of new immigrants and child labor to keep the ill-gotten flavor in our gains.)
And we need to make that process of getting kids who need it that basic foundational education as easy and cheap as possible. I would say the best thing we could do is make sure they have the opportunity to be de-programmed as soon as they are adults.
Or at the very least require a bunch of remedial training classes
This is actually a terrifying prospect that would only make the situation worse. The kids stuck there and being educated in this propaganda are the ones who will need higher education the most! It is not their fault their parents are living there. And while some parents may have a choice in the matter, many do not as relocating in the U.S. is very expensive and impractical for some families.
I actually feel like the opposite is needed - that public universities go out of their way to accept kids who were educated in Florida in the hopes of actually being able to educate them and break the cycle that is currently feeding this wave of fascism.
We have a while before we have to worry about those kids actually getting to college. What needs to happen now is the colleges proclaiming this. Make a big stink about it. Talk about remedial education requirements for Florida graduates. Across lots of states. Embarrass the hell out of the state. Set requirements that Florida public school graduates have to take an entire years worth of remedial education in college. Suddenly mom and dad looking at that bill will start to flip out.
Look at what happened to North Carolina when they tried to pass their bathroom bill, way before all the current crop of anti-trans laws. Stuff got cancelled. Events pulled out. Businesses proclaimed their objections, made public grumblings about risking expansion in the state. There was actual damage and cost, and North Carolina nixed the whole thing. Look at what’s happening in the culture wars now. Nothing. It’s become noise. Next week Wisconsin will declare an open hunting season on Muslims or something, and everybody will yawn. They’ve successfully numbed us to this shit, and until large entities start pushing back, until there are real tangible costs to the states pulling this shit, it will keep happening.
Yeah, ungood to trap Florida kids in an echo chamber. It’s the reverse. We want them to leave and see a bigger world.
I absolutely see your point and agree with you. The unfortunate part is that by the time these kids graduate from highschool they have been indoctrinated. The ones I would be the most worried about aren’t going to college anyways. There should be sanctions from the rest of the country that discourages people from moving there in the first place. Sanctions that discourage having kids there. If you want a family with children then get the fuck out. Help those people get the fuck out. You’re right that we need to undoctrinate the older ones. That won’t be as affective as just stopping people going there in the first place.
we shouldn’t be a dictator to other Americans however i understand the sentiment. The bill will get wrapped up in courts, or it should.
Bruh you suggest literally discriminating Texans?
I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous. These high school graduates from Florida didn’t choose to live in Florida. They didn’t choose to be educated this way. So not letting them into universities is discrimination and will only make things worse. If they were let into universities, they could see how Florida taught them wrongly.
Their parents chose to live there, chose to give their kids poor education, and chose to elect people to do exactly what DeSantis is doing. And they’ve been making that choice for decades now. They can damn well live with the consequences.
That’s some nonsense. Not everyone can up and move so easily. Don’t punish people for the acts of jackasses like DeSantis.
Guess what happens if no one ever gets upset about their politicians doing stupid shit. It never changes.
Consequences tend to piss people off, hopefully enough to stop voting for fascists.
Not all parents really choose to live in a place like Florida. Sometimes they have to go where the jobs are. Maybe they can’t afford a place like California. And remember there are more people in Florida who voted for Biden than in Massachusetts.
And sometimes they are living there and simply cannot afford to relocate. Relocating is very expensive in the U.S., especially if you want to relocate to an area that has better education.
The parents aren’t the kids, and it’s wrong to punish the kids for their parents actions. I am from Florida. I grew up there. I used college to get out. I’m trans and I’d probably be dead if I hadn’t left. Even when I was in school there was “lost cause” Daughters of the Confederacy bullshit snuck in the curriculum. Just because they try to brainwash the kids doesn’t mean they succeed. And I doubt they will, the internet makes that very difficult. And just because it’s in the curriculum doesn’t mean teachers won’t push back - most of them will. The kids who want out of Florida will be a self selected group who probably already got a better history education through Wikipedia than was offered in school and know that what they were taught was either incomplete or bullshit. This is why general education requirements in college exist - they address what the student may have missed in high school for one reason or another.
Great, you got out, and now there’s one less voter in Florida trying to stop the stupid shit. I guess the gop plan to chase left wingers out of their states is working.
I can’t slap stupid parents upside the head any more. Apparently it’s illegal or some shit. So the best I can do is loudly laugh when they’re victimized by their own fucked up choices.
Beleaf systems like that are almost desigmed to screw people over.
Edit: Thats too brief of an explanation, im tires and will bed.
Edit: lol, beleaf
Beleaf
eye twitching
I pray the green leaf 🙏
I was ignorant enough to support this kind of crap when I was younger. It’s never too late to turn your life around; please stop voting for these people.
Conservatives rant about the left “indoctrinating” kids to be gay or trans, but this shit is literal indoctrination. It’s fucking alarming. Like, normally I’d say stay the fuck outta places like Florida or Texas but at this point we need more liberals sent out to even out these psychos.
Every accusation by a Conservative is admission of guilt
I still want to know where the pizza place is.
The pizza place was the friends we made along the way
It’s hard when it starts at such a young age. I had it at home, church, and school. I didn’t start to change my thinking until my mid thirties, and even then it was painful because your entire reality starts to shatter.
It’s hard, painful, necessary, work. Which is four reasons most people avoid it. Thanks for fighting that fight.
It worries me to see others encouraging people to gtfo of those states because of these crazy laws, but I think that’s exactly what these politicians want. That way they will guarantee certain states to always be red during elections. But at the same time, how could you blame anyone for wanting to leave? It’s fucked up.
My dumbass moved to Florida last year and I’m sure as shit going to try and do my best to push back against these Nazis.
Why is this being allowed to happen?
Because Ronald Reagan convinced America that knowing things isn’t important, and that any opinion is valid regardless of how much of a dipshit you are.
Goddamn, that motherfucker sure did a number on U.S. politics.
Conservatives have always been conservatives. Reagan just made the abject narcissism palatable for the masses. He told us it’s OK if you’re uninformed and selfish, because you’re too important to care about other people or things. Family, and business, and American Exceptionalism, those things are more important than human rights, equitable working compensation, humanitarian aid, or the survival of the species. Things should make sense at the kitchen table, regardless of how complex the problems might be. You can trust Reagan, because he’s an actor, so you know he’s always being his genuine, likeable self.
There’s a secret competition between government officials to see who can set up the most difficult material for a game of “Real news or Onion story?” that’s really getting out of hand. Southern states have comfortably secured their continuing dominance of the leaderboard and are mostly fighting among themselves for the coveted #1 spot.
It seems like they push this kind of stuff to normalize it, so when they do less overt fucked up shit, no one bats an eye.
Among the malicious actors, there’s “regular” people caught up in this, and this sort of behavior is all they know, and anything else is shunned, woke, liberal crap… That’s sad to me, how much of a product of environment we can be, and how that trait of ours is abused by POS people like the ones in power. I guess it’s self fulfilling. Can’t fight something(racism bigotry etc) when it’s all you know.
It’s surreal that this kind of stuff is happening, and becoming more obviously malicious.
Republicans control their legislature.
Because despite appearances that are put on, the main bulk of republicans and democrats are really not very far apart. A show is created around culture war which is really not particularly cared about by either of them while the core interests that they both share - exploiting the people and maintaining the class war in favour of the bankers, hedgefunds and financial elite - are ultimately kept secure.
Until the well-meaning liberals that continually give the benefit of the doubt to democrats wise up to this and radicalise into something further left the lack of opposition to the right will continue. Meanwhile the few dedicated and ideologically motivated actual-fascists that do get power, such as in Florida, will get to wield that power however the fuck they want as long as it isn’t affecting the economic interests of the previously mentioned groups belonging to the wealthy ruling class.
An enormous amount of power exists to prevent or oppose all the things that have been happening lately. The issue is ultimately an unwillingness to do it.
This is nonsense. There’s a massive difference between Republicans and Democrats.
The main issue is that Republicans are, more often than not, pieces of shit who never argue in good faith, while Democrats try to act with the higher morale ground, when they really should be pushing harder against the Republican bullshit.
Just look at their goals and agendas. What do Republicans even stand for besides bending over for money and being against “woke” culture? Sure, there are Democrats who are money whores too, but compare the two groups overall.
As someone that votes left, your comment still reads like someone that has faith in their representatives.
Are republicans trash? Yes.
But don’t, for a second, believe democrats are “of a higher moral ground”. They are human, and they are therefore just as capable of being shitbags as anyone else.
Not trying to be pessimistic, just realistic: 99% of these people are monsters that don’t give a shit if you live or die.
The main issue is that Republicans are, more often than not, pieces of shit who never argue in good faith, while Democrats try to act with the higher morale ground, when they really should be pushing harder against the Republican bullshit.
This right here is the problem. Democrats let republicans do their thing. In other words, they’re complicit. That’s why people point out they’re really not all that different. Yes, there are differences and 10 times out of 10 I will vote for them over republicans, but I won’t fool myself into thinking it’ll actually make a significant change. At best I can expect a pause in the republican freight train of bullshit.
I’d have chimed in myself, but you said it better than I would have.
Stupid culture war bullshit is, in its entirety, a distraction to keep those getting fucked the hardest from checking to see who’s doing the fucking. The fucking is indeed done by both parties on behalf of the wealthy.
It would be fine if they were actually waging a real conflict, but neither want to do anything more than a performance as security for their economic interests.
This has allowed actual fascists to come in and wage one properly and the result is that they get everything they want. And it’s the marginalised who are paying for it, trans people the most.
I’m not saying that culture war shouldn’t be waged, ultimately what I’m saying is that it’s only being waged by the fascists. Everyone else(with power) is doing absolutely fuck all. This has caused some significant problems within leftist circles as well, as some people have taken to completely opposing any “id politics” entirely because they see it as a distraction. Lenin also opposed this, stating that all issues should be fought, not purely the economic issue:
Is it true that, in general,[3] the economic struggle “is the most widely applicable means” of drawing the masses into the political struggle? It is entirely untrue. Any and every manifestation of police tyranny and autocratic outrage, not only in connection with the economic struggle, is not one whit less “widely applicable” as a means of “drawing in” the masses. The rural superintendents and the flogging of peasants, the corruption of the officials and the police treatment of the “common people” in the cities, the fight against the famine-stricken and the suppression of the popular striving towards enlightenment and knowledge, the extortion of taxes and the persecution of the religious sects, the humiliating treatment of soldiers and the barrack methods in the treatment of the students and liberal intellectuals — do all these and a thousand other similar manifestations of tyranny, though not directly connected with the “economic” struggle, represent, in general, less “widely applicable” means and occasions for political agitation and for drawing the masses into the political struggle? The very opposite is true. Of the sum total of cases in which the workers suffer (either on their own account or on account of those closely connected with them) from tyranny, violence, and the lack of rights, undoubtedly only a small minority represent cases of police tyranny in the trade union struggle as such. Why then should we, beforehand, restrict the scope of political agitation by declaring only one of the means to be “the most widely applicable”, when Social-Democrats must have, in addition, other, generally speaking, no less “widely applicable” means? -Lenin | What is to be Done?
The problem of course is that liberals do jack shit to actually genuinely fight these other issues. The only real opposition to the fascists genuinely waging this war is coming from those waving the red flag or the black flag.
How is critical race theory banned, but this shit is allowed?
This is a rhetorical question. I know the answer…
Critical Race Theory is a requirement to get a law degree at most colleges. It was never taught below that level. What conservatives called CRT was actually American History.
wooooo slavery 2 : the sequel /s
What the actual fuck??? Seriously, Florida?
On brand for Conservatives
Jesus fucking christ. Glad my family moved from that shit hole when I was a child.
For those who don’t know:
“The Southern Argument for Slavery”
Here: https://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp
Defenders of slavery argued that by comparison with the poor of Europe and the workers in the Northern states, that slaves were better cared for. They said that their owners would protect and assist them when they were sick and aged, unlike those who, once fired from their work, were left to fend helplessly for themselves.
NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/1859/01/19/archives/the-abolition-of-slavery.html
The “personal benefit” is a type of welfarist argument. As in the slave owners “gave them good lives” and that made it all OK.
Some folks really need to read and discuss George Orwell’s book, 1984, and such things as double-speak.
Critical thinking has long departed.
Bold of you to assume the types of people actually, seriously in support of Florida GOP can read half a book without falling in a pit of rage and despair
Next year: “Y’know. We don’t say nearly enough about all of good things Hitler did.”
We really don’t talk enough about his art. Or his literary works. Or his dreams.
We should all be thankful we’ve made it this far without anyone pushing for genocide against all their non-supporters tbh
Ahh yes Florida, please teach me how slavery was such a beneficial thing for my race.
I’m sure the millions of slaves that were forced to work in fields without pay, murdered, raped, and were threatened just for wanting equal rights would agree with you.
Obvious /s
It’s about time the dang whites just confronted history and muster the courage to say, “you’re welcome”
/S
In all seriousness European expansionism had more to do with nature and the domesticated animals than anything else. Anyone that thinks race had anything to do with European success is wrong.
Race had nothing to do with it? They were considered animals because of the color of their skin. Where’s all the millions of white European slaves that were stacked on boats like cattle?
If you’re arguing from an environmental determinist POV like I assume @YoBuckStopsHere is, then the racism is a post-facto rationalization of the global dominance that Europeans stumbled into as a result of their geography, climate, and local fauna. I don’t think he meant it as an excuse for racism, he just didn’t adequately summarize the thesis of Guns, Germs, and Steel before flippantly referring to it.
Guns, Germs, and Steel is pretty widely derided by actual historians and anthropologists, so I wouldn’t go putting a lot of weight on that particular book.
https://www.livinganthropologically.com/archaeology/guns-germs-and-steel-jared-diamond/
Personally I think the criticisms are valid if a bit overstated. Diamond perhaps didn’t qualify his claims adequately and purported to explain more than he actually could. However, it’s certainly worth considering the effect that environment has on societies. I think if you want to argue that European societies broadly had agency in their exploitation of the world, you have to explain how you would expect them to overcome millennia of violence and greed, develop guns and transcontinental sailing ships, then look at Asia and Africa and say “nah, let’s leave them alone”. So, individuals certainly had agency in whether or not they partook in the rape or bought into the post-facto rationalizations of scientific racism and the like, but societies amalgamate the competing interests of their component parts, and often the worst impulses win out (incidentally, this is the same reason societies “choose” to fail). And then, ask yourself if you think the Han Chinese would have handled it much differently if it had been them instead of the British. Consider the Han Chinese today. People are people, and people are racist.
None of that changes the fact that white people did, in fact, do those things, and in many (all?) cases owe reparations where none have yet been given. Chances are we’ll be on to the next atrocious global hegemon long before those reparations ever happen. Maybe we’ll figure it out someday.
mfer skimmed the back of a Jared diamond book
Race had nothing to do with European success. I wasn’t talking about the slave trade.
Sounds like someone isn’t graduating.
- Florida GOP
It sounds like white Floridians should volunteer to be enslaved.
Sign up for personal benefit!
They don’t need saving, silly person.
I think they are now calling it, “non-optionally upskilled “
They should make sure anyone teaching this shit is enslaved for several years for some on the job personal enrichment training before they start.
Let’s start by enslaving anyone supporting this policy and ask them after 5 years how beneficial they think it is.
5 years
50 years, and the enslavement of their children and grandchildren - that’s my minimum for an experiential evaluation.
Florida is a cursed state that has been lost to Republican and Far-Right whimsy, wow
I was a little suspect of the NAACP memo about it being unsafe for Black people but man this just seals the deal
When they elect their leaders, they aren’t sending their best. They’re sending the racist hateful assholes. The dredges of society.
Scary thought: What if this is the best they can muster? After all, there are plenty on the right who are actively calling for a race war and a Christian, white supremacist theocracy with anyone who isn’t white, straight, cisgender, Christian, and male as second class citizens (if those in charge are feeling generous).
My teachers were pretty cool and they made sure to refute any positive spins people tried to attribute to slavery. Some kids came in thinking slave owners treated their slaves just like family, and the teachers shut that right down.
I’m worried about the education system. I bet those same teachers would have gotten into trouble for saying that now, being that it is apparently against the curriculum. I always thought that outside media was misleading and that education was supposed to be the truth. Now it seems like education is misleading, and it is a scary scary thing that outside media might be leaned on to learn the truth.
Honestly some of them did. That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. I mean have you seen how some people treat their family? But plenty of them were raped abused etc at the hands of their “owners”. US founding Fathers. I’m looking at you.
My family members are allowed to leave if they don’t want to be around me. Slaves, not so much.
While that’s true to a point. It’s not as meaningful. Technically slaves could run away too. People who are abused often find themselves trapped by things a lot of people who haven’t experienced it can’t imagine. It all seems so simple from the outside looking in. But it rarely ever is.
Yeah those runaways that were caught were either killed or made an example of with public torture. Runaways decided that between existing in slavery, being killed on the spot, being tortured, or maybe getting away was worth the risk. It was that bad that they risked everything. I can only imagine the bravery that was needed to decide.
They certainly did. And many children and young adults that seek to get away from abusive parents end up getting put back into the same abuse of situations and killed / tortured too. But we’re getting out in the weeds. And the downvoted circle jerk seems to imply that people are looking to be offended. Not have a discussion of any sort. Not that I ever tried to justify what Florida is doing I disagree with it intensely.
I think the issue with the downvotes is because you said that slaves could just run away. It comes across like you are simplifying the problem. I don’t want to assume that’s what was intended, it just doesn’t come across well. And, you are correct that modern times still have similar corruption. I just hope society on average understands why it’s not okay compared to back then.
It’s not that I’m trying to simplify the problem. It’s that they’re trying to be outraged and looking for something to justify it. It’s uncontroversial to say slaves could run away. The runaway/fugitive slave act were written to address it. The underground railroad to facilitate it.
My whole point initially, that being treated like family by a bunch of authoritarian, rape enablers. Isn’t the flex Republicans think it is. Everything else is comparable. Yes being considered property is worse than being family to an abuser. Well unless you were female and basically treated as property not all that many decades ago. Both are bad neither are good. But y’all wanna be outraged and see things that aren’t there. So have fun.
