- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1338851
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yDjTx
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230811193345/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
KYIV, Aug 11 (Reuters) - President Volodymyr Zelenskiy broadened his battle against graft on Friday, firing all the heads of Ukraine’s regional army recruitment centres as the war with Russia enters a critical stage.
Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
Ukraine has made cracking down on graft a priority as it fends off Russia’s full-scale invasion and seeks membership of the European Union and has fired or prosecuted a string of high-ranking officials implicated in sleaze.
Zelenskiy said that any sacked army recruitment officers who are not being investigated should head to the front to fight for Ukraine “if they want to keep their epaulettes and prove their dignity”.
Videos purporting to depict army recruiters aggressively pursuing or becoming violent with would-be draftees have gone viral on social media in the country, which has been under martial law since the invasion.
Zelenskiy said top general Valery Zaluzhny would be responsible for implementing Friday’s decision and that new candidates for the posts would first be vetted by Ukraine’s domestic security service, the SBU.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Misses important bit;
“This system should be run by people who know exactly what war is and why cynicism and bribery during war is treason,” he said, adding that those fired would be replaced by recent veterans and soldiers wounded at the front.
those fired would be replaced by recent veterans and soldiers wounded at the front
Somehow I’m not sure that they would be the most effective recruiters.
They’re not trying to sell a bright future like military recruiters in the US. People are forced to do their military service by law and the recruiters are responsible to match the drafted people with the role that fits best.
Trust me bro, you’ll love the battlefield and definitely not end up injured like me
“Mobile Infantry made me the man I am today.”
Hey it worked for Starship Troopers.
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I beg to differ. The applicants talking to recent vets or wounded soldiers know that these people could be their future. It is important to know all the possible outcomes, including possible PSTD, death, or dismemberment. Having recruiters that are too disconnected from the human war cost is a disservice, in my opinion.
I think I missed my point in there. They would be more effective when those new soldiers are on the frontline fighting, instead of selling a false image of how easy joining would be. That false sell would result in wasted resources training soldiers that wouldn’t be as effective. Sometimes it’s better to have less people in your unit, when the extra bodies (that were lied to) would cause more wasted time and energy. Time and energy that should be focused on war.
I doesn’t matter if the guy serving draft notices was wounded.
I guess some of the lucky conscripts will try to run away and then it might matter.
I knew from reading the headline that Hexbear’s horde of mouthbreathers would show up to brigade and spread their propaganda. Sure enough, here we are
Edit: You guys really are just proving my point lmao
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Ironically they support Russia, the bastion of leftism
Hexbear User here: where did you see people claim Putin’s Russia being a bastion of leftism?
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My minority, lgbtqia+, suffers daily in Russia
I’m going to let someone more educated on the geopolitics involved handle the rest of this (hopefully someone will) but i really want to zero in on this because.
there are like, 2 cishet people on all of Hexbear. Its like the most queer space on the internet thats not explicitly only for queer people… It is AGRESSIVLY pro-trans, and purged the slightest hints of transphobia in its early days. The admin team is 100% queer i’m pretty sure.
We think the oppression of queer people in Russia is bad. Whatever support an individual Hexbear has for Russia, its not for Putin’s regime or the Russian government. It is, as you yourself say, opposition to NATO. Again, I’m not going to get into the why of that, but please don’t imply that we support the Russian government’s oppression of queer people.
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Sounds like someone else has already explained the critical support thing to you, I didnt really understand the term at first either and English IS my first language, so I actually understand this one.
I hope you can see that my comrade’s defensive stance is because of past experiances and not anything personal.
I actually dont disagree that people here sometimes make unfair assumptions about the person they’re talking to. I remember the human and understand where they’re coming from and why that assume that though (past experiences with people who are like that). I wish my friends would try to remember the human more too, but I get why they can forget because of their experiences. I hope that makes sense.
“Everyone knows that the left and the right are the same and that the REASONABLE MODERATE CENTER is best! Right? Right? It’s not as though Biden is a war criminal rapist segregationist and virtually the twin brother of Trump, right? America might have some problems (ongoing slavery, genocide, imperialism, civilizational suicide via climate change) but it’s still overall a force for good, right???”
I get that you guys love seeing trump do stupid shit and abuse his power as president, because it vindicates your view of the US government, but still, the asshole that tells his fans to harass people and shits on rule of law is objectively worse than the ones who didn’t, please. I thought one of hexbear’s redeeming qualities was at least anti-homophobia, anti-misogyny, etc. This whole “trump is no worse than anyone else” is just crypto-trumpism and one example of why you guys are accused of being the lefty version of MAGAts.
Roe v. Wade was undone and LGBTQ+ rights are collapsing with Biden and the Democrats running the country. Biden also regularly sends the police to deport and/or imprison anyone who isn’t white. Nobody loves or funds the 100% nazi police more than Biden; Biden has actually signed MORE drilling permits than Trump. Biden and Trump are fascists, as are you for excusing them.
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the marxist party in my country in Europe
I’m frightened to ask about what their positions are on any policy at all. Let me guess: do what amerikkka says or your are helping putler. That kind of “marxist”?
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“I reject them both” = i luv amerikkka
It’s really amazing. “I reject them both, but very curiously I only criticize one. Why could that be?“🤔
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Hexbear users rushing to bombard this comment with image reactions to say they’re not brigading
You’re exactly correct! Lmao
I play “count the fallacies” with the comments. So far I’ve seen: ad homonim; what-about-ism; strawman ; appeal to popularity ; appeal to authority ; hasty generalization / ecological fallacy
I get bored well before I stop counting
Lol I don’t even bother with reading anything they say at all. I just block anyone who’s on Hexbear, I must have half the instance blocked. And my experience browsing Lemmy has been so much better for it!
Are hexbear users in this room right now?
Who’s Hexbear?
It’s not a who, it’s an instance: hexbear.net. It’s also full of pro-Russia tankies.
Uh… Is there a reason why I’ve never heard of this?
They were not federated before. They did around 9 days ago.
They only were recently federated, and got defederated from some large instances like lemmy.world for their explicit intent to brigade other instances and communities to spread their “anti-liberal” nonsense.
Russian troll farms have hit lemmy = lemmy has made it to the social media big leagues now!
When you’ve hit the lemmyverse
checks notes
Three years ago… Huh.
Crying about “tankies” is just calling everything “woke” with extra steps. Not everyone there automatically supports NATO/Ukraine but it’s far from what you describe.
There are still significant numbers of people denying the genocide currently happening and actively rooting for the invaders, which is why I pointed it out. There’s a reason they have been defederated by so many large instances. This has nothing to do at all with anything “woke” and I don’t see why you’d even bring it up.
Edit: I just had a look at their frontpage and the first post there is about how the “western MSM” lied about the counteroffensive and how “Stalin shouldn’t have stopped at Berlin”. Yeah, alright. lmao
Republican: “Everything to the left of me is woke.”
Republican pretending to be liberal online: “Everything to the left of me is tankie.”
At the end of the day it’s a word that can mean anything you want, and is only useful as a tactic to divide resistance against right wingers.
Very cool that the moment someone says “brigading” I can look at their profile and see, yup they joined in June. Wonder why that is 🤔
I’ve been interacting with them recently to see what they are all about and lmao I don’t think I’ve ever had a dumber discussion in my life. Truly they are uniquely stupid.
“Opposing military conscription is stupid” and other hot takes from westerners that have never had to fight a war at home.
How is it stupid to oppose Zelenskyy’s suicidal conscription polices? It makes Russia’s mobilisation/conscription look pacifist by comparison.
What are you proposing should happen in Ukraine?
Surrender. War crimes tribunals. Re-education. The rebirth of the USSR. We aren’t asking for much.
Ooookay.
The same will happen one day in the USA, just like in China and Vietnam 😉
If you pop into that users history, you’ll see that the interacting they’re talking about is whining at me for a couple of days because I called them a racist.
Not really. You just use the word ‘racist’ as a general insult to people who disagree with you. I don’t really take it as an offense since it means nothing in that context, but using the word ‘racist’ ignoring its actual meaning is problematic.
How do you not understand how using a racial slur to insult someone is racist?
Because mongrel is not a racial slur. You made it a racial slur. I could argue that the word Bastard is a racial slur by the same logic. And given enough time and effort, you would believe it if all you see is race.
There is a history of mongrel being used as a racial slur, you chose to ignore the evidence of that I showed you so you could pretend to be a victim.
Propaganda is when you say the same thing Reuters, CNN, WSJ, etc are all saying about draft corruption in Ukraine lol
Actually mediabiasfactcheck.org says that Reuters is highly objective!
Zero pinnochios! That sounds very trust worthy!
My cats have learned the wirr motor sound of the feeder means food. So they’ll run from whereever in the house at an motor sound. Suddenly like “it’s food time right? Right? But the noise means food…” Regardless of any further context.
Same same but different with hexbear.
Hexbear’s horde of mouthbreathers
Main Character Syndrome is symptomatic of lib-brain. SAD!
Never heard of hexbear but why does an instance that claims to be leftist use Trump memes and back Russia?
We also use Hillary Clinton and Biden memes, doesn’t mean we support them lmao.
Ever heard of this thing called “irony”? Might be worth checking out
Trump is funny. Obviously. Terrible but hilarious. We don’t back Russia we just understand NATO to generally be far more destructive and deadly. That’s just old Tom Bombadilaros thoughts.
That’s so dumb… To consider a defensive alliance more destructive and deadly that a corrupt state waging a war of expansion
Hell yeah brother we defended the shit out of Libya
“That’s so dumb, to consider a defensive alliance with the Serbian Black Hand more destructive and deadly than the Central Power’s Imperialism waging a war of expansion” -Average Allied Nations Second International Member, 1914
Defensive alliance that bombs every third world country that dares to go against the interests of the imperial core? Who are they "defending again?
Also how much has NATO expanded since the end of the cold war with its mafia protection racket style tactics in Europe?
A defence of what? The people who invented global warming? Nah, hard pass.
Sure it’s defensive, I just wish the people it’s defending were attacked more
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defensive alliance
NATO is defensive? lol, lmao
a corrupt state
That’s Ukraine, it used to be considered the most corrupt place in Europe by the Western media right until February 2022
waging a war of expansion
That’s also Ukraine since they’re trying to take territory from the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics after they declared independence following the coup against Viktor Yanukovych in 2014
Russia - starts wars and threatens nuclear holocaust - you sleep
NATO - literally just exists - you wake
Russia’s #1 export is troll farms and that’s why Russia is the most hated country in the world. Y’all just give people more reason to hate Russia.
NATO - literally just exists - you wake
How many millions of civilians were murdered/killed/starved/driven from their homes/displaced by American and NATO led imperialist wars such as the bombing of Yugoslavia, the invasion of Afghanistan, the bombing of Libya, or Isr*el’s genocidal occupation of Palestine, which is proudly supported by the US and NATO?
Fewer than Russia but you LOVE when Russia does it.
You honestly think less civilians were killed in all those things COMBINED than by Russia? Really? That’s actually one of the most wild liberal claims I’ve ever seen, and thats saying something. You’ve lost attachment to reality.
You ignorant gnome. We hate Russsia more than you. Russia is the liberal democratic nation built by the US from the corpse of our comunist forebears. I’d ask if you ever read a history book but your Midwest tag proves the only ones you got were written by Haliburton so it isn’t your fault you are the way you are. If I wver visit your region I must try to trap you I in a circle of salt and force you to actually read some theory.
Because Russia is the same as America in pretty much every way. So it is fascist infighting. Trump is also the same as pretty much the same as every other president. Liberals just hate him for idiosyncratic reasons. So it is funny
Russia is America’s every bad quality dialed up to 12 on steroids. Russia actually manages to make America look good, that’s just what a steaming pile of garbage Russia is. The bar is so low even America can get over it.
NATO - starts wars and keeps the meat grinder rolling all in the furtherance of capitalist dogma - you sleep
Russia - literally just exists - you wake
NATO’s #1 export is war and that’s why NATO is hated around the world. Y’all just give people more reason to hate NATO.
Russia starting a war with 350,000 casualties and threatening to nuke the West is not literally just existing. If Russia wanted to literally just exist, they never would have literally invaded another country while lying about “training exercises”.
You’re pro-Russian terrorism, it’s not a good look.
NATO encircled a world power and for the last couple decades have worked to instigate a war that has led to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people on the gamble that Russia would fall and allow the west to loot the country, exactly as they plan to loot a war torn Ukraine. For capitalism.
You’re pro-NATO terrorism, it’s not a good look.
federation isn’t brigading. a post shows up in our feeds, we click on it and comment because helping people dodge the draft is cool and good. We’re one of the largest instances, and the consensus we have on issues like “conscription is bad” should not be taken as coordination on the part of hexbear users. If we did deliberately coordinate we’d all link you clowns to the thread where we did it because it would be funny.
No but it’s weird that I never see any comments supporting Ukraine from hexbear users. Like the country was invaded, there is evidence of massive human rights atrocities. It is beyond the pale that so many people would just coincidentally celebrate every piece of bad news for the people being invaded and spin everything negatively against them. One would expect some diversity of opinions from any reasonably large instance but hexbear users all act like pro-russian trolls.
it’s weird that I never see any comments supporting Ukraine from hexbear users
Over on Hexbear and Lemmygrad we don’t take kindly to neo-nazis
sorry but that’s just how it is
Oh man, that brings me back to the days when r/cth used to brigade other subs. Those were the times.
Never thought I’d live long enough to see it again…
The best part was that it was always just the fact we were all terminally online and saw the same frontpage threads as everyone else. It was (almost) never an actual brigade, just the result of having a bunch of very active posters with better politics than the average redditor. That’s all it took to make the worst people on reddit
over being unable to consistently silence people with better opinions than their own.
Learn how federation works
Learn how defederation works
Lemmy dot world is always there if you want an instance that defederates from leftists and federates with your “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” types.
Hexbear has been using Lemmy for years, technical issues around our active user count and having to rely on volunteer labour means we were only able to federate recently.
You’re not leftists, you defend genocide and roleplay leftism
Defend genocide? Please elaborate. We definitely do not support the NATO led genocides of the third world
Behold he politics understander and one true leftist
This is just a silly “no u”. We’re federated, not defederated, so one is relevant and not the other at the moment.
Do you think you’ll stay federated?
do you even know who runs your instance and makes those decisions?
If they’re going to be that stupid I’m not staying on the instance
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epic le comeback redditorino
You are welcome to defederate yourself
Your leader likes defenestrating people
Yep, and choosing who to federate with is part of it. GTFO.
Then go make your own private instance where you can federate with whoever you want and keep the mean old tankies out
mean old tankies out
Mask off already? Damn, that’s kind of against the rules
What mask? I’m an ML and have never claimed otherwise on this account or its alts on any instance.
And being an ML isn’t against the rules, so don’t bog down our dear admins with superfluous reports.
Lemme go get my white grocery bags
ok he walked off and the tanks kept going? what are you saying? have you even seen the whole video
we’re communists, jan
You don’t say! I would’ve been clueless like walking into a room full of vegans
Jokes on you lib,
tooof course
please show us this rule
I present you the side bar ->
- Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
is the “no tankie” rule in the room with us right now?
“Tankies are bad.”
Do you believe that that because you genuinely believe that capitalist nations like the United States and Russia are doing good things for the world, while “tankie” countries like Cuba and China are doing bad things for the world? Or do you believe that because you have been tricked by 100 years of racist propaganda that says socialists like Fidel Castro, Albert Einstein, and Martin Luther King were subhuman scum?
Known capitalist evil practices do not absolve tankies of wanting to impose communism by force.
You use the term “racist propaganda” interchangeably as anti-socialist propaganda…as if the only victims of capitalism were the victims of racism.
Who calls MLK and Einstein scum? Maybe Fidel was called that by right-wingers during the Cold War. Why did you mix and match those 3? Why not Emma Goldman or Gorbachev, if you’re just naming random socialists (I’m not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist).
I’m not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist.
Well then.
“I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“Today, capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
“If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God’s children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
(from https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/21/11-most-anti-capitalist-quotes-martin-luther-king-jr)
It says a lot about the education system wherever you come from that you never learned MLK was a socialist. He HATED capitalism! Hated it! Also, the scientist Albert Einstein was a prominent socialist who wrote a famous article, “Why socialism?” explaining in detail why he was a socialist. Einstein and MLK believed in the same anti-capitalist struggle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F
lmao How many times has that worked on anyone, honestly? Like I’m just gonna wake up one day and say, “yeah, you know what, my entire worldview has been shattered by @[email protected] whispering sweet commie propaganda in my ear”
Idk why you are all on stuck on the tankie shit like it matters that much to me. Like I said previously, I don’t have a problem with the Christians for being Christian, but just like you tankies, the fandom is weird, intense and circlejerky af
IDK man. You’re basically saying “Why are you stuck on that environmentalist shit? It doesn’t matter to me. Go worry about climate change somewhere else, stop bothering me.”
My brother in christ. Climate change will affect you whether you want it to or not. Capitalism will affect you whether you want it to or not. You can’t just be “out” of it. You can’t not take a side in whether the earth gets destroyed or not (environmentalism) or whether 90% of the world’s population is plunged into neo-feudal slavery. You’re either with the slave-owners or against them. You gotta pick a side!
Damn, the threshold for responding with your teenage dreams as an emote keeps getting lower and lower. You wish I was that upset lol
🌽
Whatever that means, you first
🌽 🌽
Huh??? Did you make that choice?
Someone who can will in a minute, if y’all keep this up. I’m not worried.
My man here thinks he’s still on reddit.
Umm, I don’t think you realize how the fediverse has panned out in the last year, but go off with your lame attempts at an insult
Umm, I don’t think you realize
Holy shit I didn’t believe people like you were realwe’ve been on lemmy for 3 years. when did you join again?
Lemmygrad was the federated instance in the last year lmao
We were invited here by the Lemmy.ml mods on behalf of their community. If the majority of users on Lemmy.ml wanted us gone then the Mods wouldn’t have federated with us in the first place. Maybe you misread the community you joined 2 months ago? The mods of Lemmy.ml sure as heck didn’t misread hexbear before federating with us.
I guess I should switch servers then
If you make your own instance, you can curate your own whitelist
on behalf of their community
Oh sure 😂
The mods of Lemmy.ml sure as heck didn’t misread hexbear before federating with us
They sure as hell aren’t gonna misread the comment sections now
Most people on lemmy came here because they didn’t like the way reddit was moderated. If you don’t like how Lemmy.ml s moderated you can go somewhere else like back to reddit or make your own instance. “Be the change you want to see in the world.” This is 100% a “you” problem and it is funny (in a sad sort of way) that you think otherwise.
Most people on lemmy came here because they didn’t like the way reddit was moderated
Duh, and somehow irrelevant, but nice try
I’m not gonna let some scumbag tell me to leave. Federating with you all has made this site worse and we’ll see how well this goes. This is not a “me” problem, but a “you bunch of scumbags” problem.
Wandering into a communist website and refusing to leave lmao have fun baby
I’m not telling you to leave. I kinda like you. All I have to do is exist and you suffer. I don’t really care if you to suffer but it does validate my self worth that I can effect you so easily. Your stubbornness makes me like you more because you refuse to disengage from validating my ego.
My previous comment was just trying to be fair and explain why leaving Lemmy.ml was the only likely way to end your pain at having to hear opinions you don’t agree with but I guess I made it too complex. Enjoying your suffering is only fair if you are doing it of your own free will.
You also aren’t using the “you problem vs me problem” meme correctly. The idea is that a “you problem” is something that only inconveniences you and and thus you are the one who has to fix it. We “bunch of scumbags” are actually quite happy with how things are going and as such wont be trying to change anything. And I as I was trying to explain I doubt anyone else (AKA moderators) is going to come fix things for you.
I hope you continue to spend lots of time on Lemmy.ml (you know the M L stands for Marx and Lenin right?) We hexagonal ursines will enjoy our time visiting here.
“Scumbag”= “Anyone who is opposed to me, the main character of reality”
but nice try
When everyone you meet is a scumbag, maybe it’s not us, maybe it’s you?
" 😂" does not fool anyone in the year 2023, everyone knows “😂” means
I actually dont can you tell me lol
Imagine emojis having different meanings outside your circlejerk. It’s hard to imagine the world outside, huh
Yeah to be fair it can also mean
What’s hilarious is that you think your mods are on your side in this fight. Why did you think they invited us here?
You’ve been here for two months. You don’t know what the history of the website is. You don’t know the character of its administrators. I’ve got a secret for you: they’re leftists like us. In fact the whole lemmyverse was created by Marxist-Lenninists. This must be the very first time you’ve ventured out of your information bubble. Welcome. We’re going to bully the shit out of you until you can behave amicably. Did you think you could just show up to someone else’s community and start acting like you owned the place? There will be no eternal september here.
I don’t mind leftists, but I do mind genocide defenders like you.
You don’t know what leftism or genocide is
Then fucking check yourself, liberal. When you abuse the word ‘genocide’ you diminish it. You are doing the work of the nazis in making what they did (and this is what the westerner thinks of when they use the word genocide) seem no worse than the things you apply the label to in your cynicism or ignorance. And this was their literal strategy. Google “the double holocaust myth”. When they were still in uniform they applied this strategy to the USSR (which could be one of the examples you’re vagueposting at me over). You will find, if you dig into that search, documentation by Jewish hate watch groups to that effect.
I fucking mind genocide denial as much as you pretend to. So knock it the fuck off.
And go fuck yourself for calling me that.
You got me there! I admit that I absolutely did not read that stupid AMA
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I think they know quite well how it works, and hexbear. Hence the comment.
Yet they say,
horde of mouthbreathers
If they understood it then either they are a conspiracy theorist or they wouldn’t call it a “brigade”
If you feel more comfortable in your bubble go back to it
Idk if “commenting on a post from another instance that showed up in my feed because the instance I use is federated with that instance” is brigading.
No you dont understand, if I dont want you here then youre a PEST whose ATTACKING ME so you need to leave, mkay?
Uh yeah… I’m thinvking it’s hexbear time
I’m just here to laugh at bazinga dorks crying for mods
we’ve been doing lemmy shit for 3 years, youre brigading
Every wonder why this kind of liberal belief never just naturally develops in new communities like ours? Notice how they always have to insert themselves from outside and takeover modding to have any relevance? Yeah, that.
If you’re so eager to defend a military conscription/draft, why don’t you go and fight on the frontline yourself? This whole article is about Zelenskyy cracking down on Ukrainian citizens avoiding the conscription because they don’t want to be sent into the meat grinder that is the heavily fortified front lines.
It’s always those that face the least consequences from war that are the most eager for it to continue.
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Brigading is when you federate and use the federation
imagine being a grown ass adult and taking the time to write this comment
A draft is slavery.
Sort of. But so is letting your country be taken over by orcs. Choose your poison.
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There’s something very telling about liberals using terms and concepts from actual fantasy settings to describe their understanding of war.
Dude, you know very little about me as I do you. So let’s not presume I know nothing of war.
Yeah I know so many vets who come back from Afghanistan like “Wow those Kandahar warlords are real Voldemorts!”
Why aren’t you fighting on the front lines in Ukraine? It’s just like LOTR/Harry Potter so you should have no problem opposing the forces of evil, seeing as how you are the main character of existence.
Least racist liberal
I hope to God they get sent to the very fucking front. Every last one of them. It made me sick watching videos of these cowards kidnapping men on the streets, beating the shit out of them, then forcing them into the army while taking bribes from rich people to leave them alone. Then to watch videos of those brand new recruits getting obliterated in bradleys and MRAPS by artillery.
I seriously hope each of these fucking murderers steps on a land mine or gets their air and life ripped out of their lungs by a thermobaric rocket.
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Username checks out
I mean there are literally videos of Ukrainian men being kidnapped so they can be conscripted into the military. The user you are replying to is clearly making a dark joke about that.
Two countries at war. One is the aggressor and other is the victim of aggression. But of course hexbear.net comrades would want the victim country to act all up to standard, and ignore how the aggressor country is doing its own military recruitment.
The confederacy also considered themselves to be the victims of a war of aggression, in fact some schools in the south still teach the civil war as the “war of northern aggression” even though they started that shit
Nazis are never the victims, if anyone attacks them first it’s just self defense
I’m just a smol bean Ukwaine UwU pwease don’t agress on me 🥺. Don’t look at what I’m doing to the Donetsk, Luhansk, or Roma they’re just subhumans.
“Boot camp” meaning some dumbass NATO instructor showing you how to kick open doors and do counter-insurgency for 2 weeks before being sent off to run into a minefield
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True, they were barely in Ukraine for a week before their own lack of opsec invited a rain of cruise missiles down on them
Truly the most reddit ever did it.
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That’s not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don’t want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky’s response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.
Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, and I’m certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.
I’ve been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I’ve seen little to indicate that he’s anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader – I like the guy, and I’m inclined to trust his judgement. He’s done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don’t.
Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the “ethical ideals of the EU” are.
Do you think they’re different than the ones codified in Article 2?
Article 2 - Right to life
- Everyone has the right to life
Except those Russian orcs
- No one shall be condemned to the death penalty, or executed.
Sending conscripts to into the front lines instead of seeking a diplomatic solution is quite literally a death penalty
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A question, do you truly think the Netherlands or Denmark would honestly let Ukraine join the EU? When they are already moaning about Romania and Bulgaria? Its a pipedream to sell Ukrainians on copium.
Because they don’t need any more recruits, right?
Because they don’t need any more recruits, right?
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Zelensky is looking very Italian in that photo.
Don’t they have the same roots? Or was it romania?
Romania has the same roots. Ukranians are east-slavic.
Thx!
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No you don’t understand this actually means they’re winning even harder putler St Petersburg slava unazi
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Making education so expensive that the only way for some to pursue education is to die for their country is a crime. If majority of your citizen view being part of army is only for poor people, your country does not deserve to be protected because obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
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I have the opposite view. A country at war should have the draft, and there should be no exceptions, so that the politicians who send other people’s children off to fight also have to send their own.
Most soldiers in a “professional” army are there because their families are poor and they have few other options to make a living.
There will always be exceptions, for example for disabilities or medical conditions. Most of those exceptions will be more accessible to wealthy or influential families that can afford to pay off doctors than poorer families.
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Politicians didn’t send their own children when there was a draft in the US. Trump AND Biden are evidence of this
Trump and Biden both avoided the draft with “1-Y” (medical) exemption. Keep in mind that more than half the 27 million eligible males were exempted or disqualified for some reason, so it’s not as if this was something only politicians did.
I would wager there was a higher percentage of the wealthy that somehow got an exemption
Make declaration of war a mandatory vote for every citizen. Anyone who votes “yes” (or illegally abstains) gets registered for the draft. Anyone who votes “no” is unregistered.
I know it’s not really feasible because governments need to be able to react swiftly in times of war. But these days with computers and cell phones, there’s very little reason that the government couldn’t push a “go download our secure voting app/visit this link to cast your vote” notification via the emergency alert broadcasting system.
Ukraine didn’t decide to go to war.
They were invaded.
After the US set the stage and created the environment to start a war.
How do you reckon it would work when it comes to age? Is the vote limited just to people of military age? Does this mean that whether or not to declare war effectively falls in the hands of ~18 - 30 year olds?
Or is it open to everyone and even some old warhawk could be drafted? Are handicapped people not allowed to vote? Women that don’t meet combat standards?
There is always the option to draft them into some sort of non-combat role. But if you knew you were only going for a non-combat role, it could be a lot easier to vote “yes”.
Lack of a draft is almost directly and solely responsible for the current quagmire of the US military - when we had a draft, normal people were pulled and had to serve with other normal people. They had real lives to go back to. They had family and friends who would listen to them and write their representatives to complain if the use of those human resources was inappropriate. Seeing body bags flying home and a televised razing of a foreign jungle turned a lot of people off from war. And they made their voices heard.
Now, the only people being asked to pay attention are career military professionals. They often do not have a job or life outside of the military to tie them to normal life. They’ve also gotten smarter about where they fly corpses in, so the news can’t provide a solid day-by-day count of the wasted lives. These folks aren’t pushing back against the worst excesses of the military, because their college benefit or their pension require them to shut up and just do what they’re told.
There’s a great documentary called Sir! No, Sir! about the vibrant protest movement from within the military, driven mostly by draftees during Vietnam.
I don’t disagree with your initial reasoning, but there’s a different take that says that what we have allowed is for the worst of us to control the policy for all of us, with nearly no external oversight.
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This is a difficult problem to solve for a society though. The army is needed, because it’s what allows your country to exist. In time of peace, draft is really not optimal, because people are taken a year of their life for absolutely nothing. But the army need to keep its structure alive and functioning, or there’ll be nothing when it’s needed.
The army of professionals is a good solution, and they do a hard job to keep an important piece of the state alive when no one cares about it.
Ultimately I think it’s better if poor people make the core of the army because it means ultimately the safety of the nation is in their hands. Still, culture of the military men should be better taken care of, and elitism of the command structure should be fought.
Being in a country with a very high population means you have the privilege of enough volunteers to protect your borders.
I would be more likely to go the other way starship troopers style only those with the character to defend their country should have the right to vote in that country. Those leeching off the system and letting others doing the difficult things shouldn’t be rewarded
So essentially install a military dictatorship, because only the military gets any votes?
Mate, the Starship Troopers movie was a satire, not a fucking checklist.
I was on about the book.
The film is great but philosophically it’s a shadow of the book.
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So only able bodied men and women. Big yikes. Also people who aren’t soldiers are leeches. Even bigger yikes.
Obviously not read starship troopers thet make it very clear that anyone can serve and will be accommodated. And they make it very clear that being in the military isn’t the only way to serve.
It’s just above providing for your country and earning the right to vote.
Oh well if starship fucking troopers says it. You do realize that’s satire right. Jesus fuck you fascists are so fucking oblivious it isn’t funny.
A bit fascist to assume that the only way to contribute to society is military service.
I didn’t say that.
You did though
First thing was that no draft is stupid and even something like starship troopers needing to serve the country in some way to be worth of a vote isn’t the worst idea in the world so it’s better than that. You don’t think there is anything at all in having some means of people that are willing to do more for their country be it military or otherwise should have more of a vote than those that do nothing and would leave it the second it isn’t doing enough for them? Some people want to make their country and the world a better place, why should they get less than someone that does nothing.
I’m not arguing that Turing should have been on the front line or that the Bevin Boys weren’t serving their country and willing to do everything possible to help their country and should have equality. Just those trying to escape when things go bad shouldn’t have the same rights when things go well off the backs of others.
Dude “You should have to provide service to the abstract idea that is ‘the nation’ in order to get your human rights” is just fascism, no matter how you try to spin it.
Oh hey, an actual Fascist.
Absolute state of the world that the view that people should defend their country is facism. I’m sure the allies didn’t see themselves as fascist in WW2
The allies didn’t have a ‘service guarantees citizenship’ model, dipshit.
You don’t think the allies out people in jail for not helping with the war effort?
Right tell me how every example of “you need to do something for your country to get citizenship” is fascism? Plenty have people have argued that you need to be educated to vote or to have land to vote or whatever. They are shit systems yes but they aren’t fascism.
You’re just using an over used internet buzzword. It’s going to lose all meaning eventually.
They are shit systems yes but they aren’t fascism.
Yes they are
