If you can seriously read my posts in their entirety and still feel like I am a troll or a China hater, then you either have 0 language comprehension or crippling autism.

For sure, have a great day.

How about you show the comments those replies were directed towards? Again are some people such sheltered snowflakes that you expect to freely insult someone without getting shit back? Isn’t this internet 101 to expect an equal amount of respect directed back towards you?

As for the post I got banned from GenZeDong for. How about you bring up the original context of the post? I started the post explicitly saying I don’t buy into the western narrative on Xinjiang, so I found a set of very robotic and eerily similar pro-China Xinjiang videos all sharing the same characteristics in their title very weird. And that post was in the format of a question because I was confused whether this was a 2-way western made psyop or a very poor outreach piece conducted by a local government branch in Xinjiang, and was looking for input from more knowledgeable people.

I even got DMs after the post was removed from some people who didn’t believe I was fairly banned, and proceeded to have some productive discussion on the topic of my post.

Jesus christ if I didn’t have some good faith discussions with people initially when I just posted this thread I would think this was the Vaush subreddit from how much some of you purity test others.

This is literally the meme of you throwing shit over a wall, and then getting surprised when shit is thrown back at you.

First of all, that’s not what infantilizing means, infantilizing means I give off the impression of assuming a group of people are dumbasses based on the way I’m treating said group. In fact I would say the way you’re posting, typing out some elementary school explanation of stereotypes which implies you assume I’ve never heard of these talking points, after reading everything I wrote, is actually being condescending.

Explicitly stating something and then proceeding to ask a question quantifying to what extent these circumstances are true, within a space where the group of people have an overwhelmingly positive reception, is about the least offensive way you can talk about cultural stereotypes, especially one which is overwhelmingly reinforced by me and my friends personal experiences.

In a purely philosophical sense if you want to ignore all normative arguments, context, and reality then sure, you can say all stereotypes are the same nonsense and reaffirm existing biases. In reality, some stereotypes are more real than others, and sometimes stereotypes are completely accurate (not implying this one is), it depends on what we’re talking about so it helps to actually focus on the topic of discussion (in this case mannerisms of Chinese people), instead of rambling off a bunch of general talking points to a generalized version of the topic of discussion, and then loosely attributing it back to what I said.

In this case the actual Chinese people below have confirmed that some of these stereotypes do disproportionately exist in Chinese culture amongst the older generation, the explanation that these people act the way they do after having experienced famines and poor education when China was still industrializing is understandable and makes sense. Actually quantifying a stereotype and explaining why they exist is so much more effective at resolving prejudices than acting like a caricature from some 2016 SJW video now don’t they?

I stand by what I said. What I posted was at most slightly insensitive in wording. And based on the countless responses below from actual Chinese people which lead to friendly and productive conversations that gave me a better understanding of these issues, it seems like my message was not interpreted negatively at all by almost anyone who it actually pertains to. In fact it’s funny how the only people who my wording actually offends are non-Chinese people.

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That makes sense, I guess rising the skill floor is a lot harder than rising the ceiling as it is tied to the transition of China’s workforce to a more high skilled one. But anyways thanks for the input, even anecdotal examples can be interesting to expand perspectives.

How do comments of these two’s quality have so many upvotes? Is this some lemmy.world psyop brigade lmao?

Thanks for the explanation and article, it explains a lot. I understand more high quality goods in China are coming out, this in undeniable. I do want to ask, is it still the case today that China makes both very high and low quality goods? Or is the quality floor moving upwards?

This is an internet message board, apologies if my choice of vocabulary doesn’t meet the standard of a research paper, but you seem to have glanced over half a sentence of every point I wrote and then attribute the worst version of that topic possible onto me.

1. If you deny the matter of fact that Chinese goods have received an overall negative international reputation for being disproportionately low quality until at the least the last 20 years, then you would just be wrong. The posts below have done a good job responding to why this is a necessary transitioning step towards industrialization, and statistics do indeed show an improvement of this trend which is great.

2. ??? https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/12/05/key-facts-about-chinas-declining-population/ https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/population https://www.worlddata.info/asia/china/populationgrowth.php Are you denying that birth rate is an upcoming issue for China to face? Again the question of discussion here is whether this is a significant enough issue to harshly impact China’s economy and growth, or whether other factors such as China’s transition to a more skilled and educated workforce will be enough to offset this, not if this issue exists or not, which it most certainly does.

3. According to links below, the Chinese national bureau of statistics. The age range they picked to measure from was the problem, not the number itself which is true.

4. At this point I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, or if you are just trying to be as condescending as possible. If it wasn’t explicit enough, I am in favor of the bans over paid tutoring of core subjects because it gives an unfair advantage to richer families… As for illegal tutoring services, I don’t think the Chinese government will do nothing about them, that’s why I’m asking in one of the only pro-China english forums if anyone knows what specifically they are doing…

5. Again I didn’t formally state this point in the style of a thesis because I didn’t think anyone would deny the matter of fact that China, or at least sinospheric countries, have historically suffered uniquely significant amounts of nepotism. Xi’s anti-corruption campaigns were a welcome start to addressing the issue. However anecdotes can prove at least the continued existence of corruption in China, my question was to try to quantify the extent of which it still existed at, if there are any ongoing current actions tackling it, and how the situation compares to western countries (which admittedly have been getting worse in this regard over the years).

6. No?? Racism would be saying “Han people are inherently ugly because they have squinty eyes.” That’s not at all similar to what I said. What I did was I identified a behavioral pattern amongst a group of people from a shared cultural group, based on my own experiences, friends experiences, that match existing stereotypes about said group; which while not being sufficient to dictate an absolute conclusion, should at least justify having the desire to inquire about such behavior no? Especially since I am asking a community where said ethnic group has a positive reception, which should imply I am trying to learn instead of reinforcing prejudices in an echo chamber, I seriously don’t see how my question can be perceived as anything more than somewhat insensitive in delivery.

I won’t respond to the end of your post which is just a splattering of non sequiturs.

I guess I’ll need to do more research on the manufacturing and nepotism issues, thanks for giving me a starting point with the links you have provided.

About the manufactured cost of education. I completely understand the argument if we’re talking about extracurricular topics. However if we are talking about core curricular topics, if private tutoring is a thing, even if only existing in the realm of illegal services, what is stopping teachers from moving part of the curriculum behind a paid wall? And then with the competitive nature of Chinese culture and the Gaokao system, wouldn’t that inevitably spiral into it being necessary to enroll your kids in these financially predatory programs just to keep up and have a chance of getting into a good university?

Fair enough, with 1.4 billion people I guess you could find any subgroup with any number of negative characteristics that you want to see.

I guess besides keeping an open mind, it will be necessary for me to visit China myself in the future to gain a satisfying answer to some of these subjective questions. As there’s really only so much I can do to sift through the overwhelming amount of biased information about China here in the west, even if I’m trying to maintain an objective research process.

About points 1 and 5, are there any of the aforementioned statistics that could paint a quantitative response regarding the issue? I understand China is working to address these issues, I am interested in how effective these measures are and how much it has improved.

I understand the unemployment issue better now from some other comments and gave my responses there.

About point 2 and 4, correct me if I’m misinterpreting your response, but so far these issues are connected because although Chinese families might want kids, the educational costs attached make this impossible for some?

I agree that banning the tutoring classes was a correct choice, however the emergence of illegal tutoring services and their popularity does paint a rather frustrating truth about the difficulty to resolve this issue, that is the inherent competitiveness of Chinese culture amongst the parents of this generation makes this issue very complicated, which is corroborated by your explanation of the issue.

And if this is the case, wouldn’t this be a deadlock of parents not being able to afford raising children because of the educational costs, and the educational costs being so high because of the academic pressure parents put on their children? That sounds like a clusterfuck, does the CPC have any ideas on how to resolve this right now?

Yeah that was the consensus I obtained from reading western news sources on the issue. I understand now reporting the unemployment rate of people still in school age is pretty disingenuous. However like my response to an above comment, I want to ask is there statistics showing the distribution of where the unemployment comes from in this 16-24 age range? I’m specifically interested in the 22-24 age range as that would be the average new-grad, and this would paint a much more interesting picture to analyze.

Thanks for the response. I responded to the population issue in an above comment.

I just want to ask about the overworking of students bit. I recognize China banned after-school tutoring of core subjects, but I have heard there are massive amounts of illegal tutoring now that has effectively become the norm if you want to remain academically competitive, is this true? And if so are there actions happening to address this?

I conceded that the mannerisms argument is probably subjective, and I’ll need to visit China myself to come to an informed conclusion.

Thank you for the articles, if this was reddit I would give you a delta on the population point lol. Looking at a less simplistic economic model does show that the west exaggerates China’s population issue.

For the unemployment issue, that makes a lot more sense, so in actuality China has a “youth unemployment rate” (measured from 16-24) at ~20%, not overall unemployment. I’m really curious about this statistic, is there data to see what percentage of this comes from people below the age of typically receiving a bachelors degree (<=22) vs 22-24? And is there data comparing this to US or other western demographics? That would be very interesting.