To clarify, I don’t believe in the surface level propaganda thrown in China’s way about “1984 dystopian society,” “Mao killed 60 million people,” “Xinjiang concentration camps” or things like that.

I’m curious about a few negative factors of China that have become widespread knowledge over the past decade or so by even the politically literate audience, and I want to learn how accurate these things are, how prevalent they are in today’s society in China, and how much it would impact the day to day life of someone living in China.

  1. Quality control, I have read stories about Chinese factories producing guns, steel, industrial goods, consumer goods, food products, far below acceptable or safe standards, leading to construction/infrastructure failure and severe health complications. There are also claims that smaller restaurants in China today still sometimes use very low quality ingredients that can result in serious health issues. How much of an issue is this?

  2. Population issue. The Chinese population trend is going in a unfavorable direction right now, and there are reports of young people not wanting to have children because of cultural and cost reasons. How much of an issue is this, and will China end up like Korea and Japan in another decade or two?

  3. Unemployment, it is a fact right now that Chinese people have a 20% unemployment issue due to an abundance of university graduates without sufficient jobs to match this supply. And this has caused internal competition to swell to unreasonable standards leading some people to straight up give up on their careers and become full time neets. Are there any positive trends or actions to resolve this issue?

  4. Education. The education system sounds terrifying in China right now, children as young as elementary schoolers having to sleep only 6 hours a night to finish their homework from school and tutoring services. I have also read that after the government banned tutoring of core classroom subjects, illegal tutoring services have become a thing. I would laugh at how this would be the most asian issue ever if I wasn’t so horrified by the situation. Is there any government effort to resolve this right now?

  5. Nepotism. From what I have heard and read, using connections to obtain positions and resources in China is still very common. How bad is this, and are there any reforms or policies tackling it?

  6. Mannerisms and emotional intelligence of the average person. There are frequent complaints about Chinese people being horrible tourists, being extremely rude, having the emotional maturity of a donut until at least the age of 30, and also taking advantage of anything free to disgusting levels (I have personally seen old Chinese ladies take out a container and fill it with ketchup from a restaurant where the condiments are self served). I understand the reasoning behind this, China in it’s current iteration is a relatively new country, and the education received by different generations varies massively in quality, with only really Gen Z on average obtaining a level of education that is on par with western populations. I just want to ask how bad this is in day to day life, and if it is tolerable.

Thanks for reading my somewhat long post, I’d appreciate any response, you don’t have to respond to all of my points, any point would be fine. I want to have a positive impression of China but these points are really bugging me right now.

  • qwename@lemmygrad.ml
    11·
    1 year ago

    There are certainly statistics about overall quality of products from the manufacturing industry, but I think it’s too broad to be very useful. For example, from this year’s statistical communique (http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202302/t20230227_1918979.html):

    The qualification rate of manufactured products[64] reached 93.29 percent.

    [64] The qualification rate of manufactured products is the ratio of the samples that have passed the sampling quality test, the process of which follows certain methods, procedure and standard, to the total amount of the sampled products. The survey samples cover 29 sectors of the manufacturing industry.

    For more specific statistics you’d need a more specific question. About nepotism, the campaign against corruption has some statistics but I don’t think there’s a way to quantitatively reflect on the issue of nepotism.

    On educational costs, this is a manufactured need as public education from kindergarten to grade 12 is practically free in China, and university costs are almost practically free. Now private education is where things can become very expensive as you can imagine, this includes private schools and private tutoring.

    Some parents think that expensive private schools offer better quality of education, or think that they are better alternatives to some low-par public schools, but I think they just cost more. Private tutoring isn’t just about core subjects, some parents may also want to enroll their kids into arts/tech/sports/etc. training classes, that’s where some of that imaginary educational costs come from too. Unless private education is banned, this non-issue of educational costs will still be a problem for competitive parents.

    I didn’t go too much into the cost of living, but the cost of housing may be the main concern for parents who want to enroll kids into schools in the mega-cities (e.g. Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen), but this is also a nuanced topic.

    • zeerphling@lemmygrad.ml
      2·
      1 year ago

      Just to add a little more context to the public/private school divide in China.

      1. Private schools are generally run separate from Gao Kao training in public schools. That is, a student in a private school is usually studying to go to a university outside China. There are some exceptions like the universities that have joint partnerships with Anglosphere universities, like Duke Kunshan, NYU Shanghai, and Xi’an Jiaotong Liverpool, that mainland students can enter with or without Gao Kao scores.

      1a. There are also private schools that are inside public schools that give the students both a graduation certificate from a local public high school and a more international education in programs like the IB, A-levels (Cambridge, Oxford, Edexcel, etc.), AP, among other bespoke curriculums.

      1. A student who does not complete the Gao Kao is not eligible to work for the government. There is some sort of stamp that the students get upon graduation from public schools that is needed for their civil service application. If you don’t do the Gao Kao, you can’t get the stamp.

      2a. In order to be eligible for the Gao Kao, the student must have also passed the Zhong Kao (The public high school entrance exam)

      1. While the tuition for university may seem like not much to a person used to the costs in the west, it can be burdensome to many locals in the PRC. Here’s a few (articles in Chinese) examples of students losing all their tuition, sometimes leading to unfortunate results.

      2. There are also schools that students without a local Hukou (household registration) can enter, but I’m not familiar with that side of education.

      4a. A parent can get a new Hukou for their child by buying an apartment in a new city, and other options depending on the municipality.

      4b. There is talk of some Hukou reforms in large east-coast cities, but we’ll have to wait and see what exactly changes

    • Khabib@lemmygrad.mlOP
      31·
      1 year ago

      I guess I’ll need to do more research on the manufacturing and nepotism issues, thanks for giving me a starting point with the links you have provided.

      About the manufactured cost of education. I completely understand the argument if we’re talking about extracurricular topics. However if we are talking about core curricular topics, if private tutoring is a thing, even if only existing in the realm of illegal services, what is stopping teachers from moving part of the curriculum behind a paid wall? And then with the competitive nature of Chinese culture and the Gaokao system, wouldn’t that inevitably spiral into it being necessary to enroll your kids in these financially predatory programs just to keep up and have a chance of getting into a good university?

      • qwename@lemmygrad.ml
        7·
        1 year ago

        I heard teachers from public schools were “moving part of the curriculum behind a paid wall” before the ban on tutoring for core subjects. Teachers in public schools aren’t allowed to participate in private tutoring, that didn’t stop some teachers from trying anyway. What you are talking about is not a just possibility, it has already happened before, and is mitigated with the ban and other policies.

        Forgot to mention, even though teachers in public schools can’t participate in private tutoring, there’s no stopping them from joining private schools if the salaries offered are more lucrative.

    • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
      2·
      1 year ago

      Could you say more about the cost of university? How much would it cost a Chinese citizen to get a degree, for example? Does it depend on the province or course?

      • qwename@lemmygrad.ml
        4·
        1 year ago

        As an example, for the top 2 prestigious universities in China, Tsinghua University and Beijing University, most courses cost 5000 RMB/year and dormitories cost around 1000 RMB/year, which adds up to 24,000 RMB for a 4-year course.

        To put that into perspective, here’s a list of the minimum wage for all regions in China (Chinese text): http://www.mohrss.gov.cn/SYrlzyhshbzb/laodongguanxi_/fwyd/202307/t20230703_502349.html. They range from 1420 RMB to 2690 RMB, so the total cost of 24,000 RMB will require 9 to 17 months of minimum wage income depending on the region.

        • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
          1·
          1 year ago

          Thanks!

          With some heavy guess work, I can work out some of the table. Fun! Does 小时 mean hourly? (Literally, ‘little part’?)

          That’s maybe more than I’d expect. Still better than many places in the west. A place at a top US school might cost $200k+ once everything is factored in. A lot more than minimum wage. I suppose people going to the top Chinese schools are expecting to get paid a lot more than minimum wage, too?

          I imagine less prestigious schools in China are cheaper? And a direct comparison with the west world consider how predatory the loans are. For example, borrowing the equivalent of one year’s minimum wage in the US could mean paying a stealth tax forever if minimum monthly payments only convert the interest and if a worker only has a small amount of ‘spare’ cash for overpayments because their rent is so high. Is there a general sense that paying for higher education is ‘affordable’ in China?

          • qwename@lemmygrad.ml
            3·
            1 year ago

            小时 means “hour”, so in this case it means hourly. I use minimum wage as a baseline, but you can compare using per capita disposable income instead (English data source: http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202301/t20230118_1892303.html). Yes most people who’ve been to any form of university are expected to earn more than just minimum wage.

            The cost of courses in public schools varies by region and is set by the local government, I would say 4000 RMB/year is a safe estimate on the minimum fee.

            Students can also apply for student loans in China. I’m not familiar with the topic but here’s a short news article from 2021 that covers the basics: http://english.scio.gov.cn/pressroom/2021-09/15/content_77753922.htm

            Undergraduate students can apply for a maximum of 12,000 yuan ($1,860) in loans per person each year

            The loans should be mainly used to cover tuition and accommodation, and any extra money can be used for daily expenses

            Students do not need to pay the principal or interest while they are still in college and can apply for a five-year probation period after graduation, during which they only pay the interest

            Student loans are part of China’s financial aid package to help college students. Other assistance includes scholarships, subsidies and tuition fee waivers

            Different forms of financial aid to college students totaled 124 billion yuan last year, benefiting 36.7 million students

            Note that the last line I quoted mentions 36.7 million students, I’m pretty sure that includes students from all previous years since the total number of students in undergraduate and graduate schools currently amount to 40 million.

            As for whether higher education is “affordable” in the general sense, here’s a quote from the same article:

            No college student should drop out of school due to financial difficulties and enabling all students to change their destinies and realize their dreams through education affects millions of households, national development and the future of the Chinese nation