Stewart wasn’t retired, mind you. He’s had a show for the past two years. He only recently got cancelled for speaking of subjects Apple didn’t like.
Also, please don’t rehash our conversation. It’s still written up there. The only possible purpose of that exercise is to put together a straw man. I remember what I said.
You could have skipped to the last line, which is where we disagree and where I think democrats and their larger sphere of influence are repeating a catastrophic mistake.
He’s a campaign staffer. You’re a campaign staffer. Everybody is a campaign staffer until such time as the opposing force isn’t a fascist cult of personality.
If you don’t see that, you’re part of the problem. If Stewart is back to pretending that he can “restore sanity” by acting as if the other side had legitimate concerns that should be heard, he’s part of the problem. That’s not the game we’re playing anymore. If you didn’t realize the rules had changed when Trump won the first time, surely you must have noticed after January 6th, or when the poll numbers of the, again, actual rapist refused to climb down.
So no, his honest statements aren’t irrelevant. They’re a drop in a pond of, once again, information warfare. The wilful blind spots and bothsideism may be naivete or disingenuous misinformation, but my entire point is at this stage it doesn’t mater. They don’t belong. We’re past those. You either play the game we’re all playing or you’re playing for the other guys.
True, he wasn’t retired during that time. I was wrong. He just wasn’t the frontman sitting behind the desk each night.
If you think I’m part of “the problem” because I do not identify as a campaign staffer and do not assign that role to others during an election cycle, or that valid criticisms of candidates are off the table during the election cycle, then we can end the discussion here. As far as I’m concerned, you’re part of the problem because you assume, ultimately, that any nuanced discussion is invalid because Americans are too stupid or ignorant for that kind of discussion to ever be anything more than ammunition for the opposition, which I know isn’t the case. Have a good one!
To be clear, I think being part of the problem isn’t the same as being malicious, hostile or stupid. I think being stubbornly naive about the system working the way it’s supposed to has its uses. It’s a powerful tool to get the corrupt to shy away from breaking the rules if enough people assume the rules will be followed.
But I also think we punched through that wall like a bunker buster dropping from orbit years ago and a lot of the US is a toad that has been simmered to being full-on al dente by this point. Well meaning people hoping to get through this as if it’s… you know, an actual democratic election are part of the problem despite themselves.
I don’t think I’m being “stubbornly naive about the system” by thinking it’s okay for people to engage in nuanced discource. You and I will not agree on this, and I am not interested in further engaging with someone whose hardline rhetoric has gone so far as to demonize valid criticism.
There’s nothing Biden could do to lose my vote in this election, but I’m not going to pretend he’s a perfect candidate. And anyone who thinks we need to treat him as such is deluded. Democrats and progressives (like me) knew he wasn’t a perfect candidate in 2020, but they knew he could garner enough support to beat Trump, and he did. Will he do it again? No idea, but I’m not interested in silencing valid criticisms now any more than I was in 2020, because the game hasn’t changed since then. You think January 6 changed anything? Ask any given Republican if January 6 changed which party they’ll be voting for. There’s your answer.
The game has changed because Republicans will stick with the coup party. That’s my whole point.
If your political rival is willing to violently disrupt the process when they lose you’re not having a fair and free election, and “valid criticism” becomes a distant second priority to… you know, going back to a situation where you get to have a democracy with fair and free elections.
That’s the shift the Stewart approach refuses to acknowledge. And when I say “stubbornly naive” I mean that acting under the fiction that the rules are followed and things will behave how they’re supposed to can be an inspiring, powerful thing. It can shame those who would flip-flop or gloss over procedure or principle to stick to the norms and conventions that keep society afloat.
But there’s no shaming Trump and no shaming the trumpists. And if you’re still hoping to inspire them into reasonableness when the death cult of the rapist orange fascist is actively telling you… what is it this week? That he will fund a completely unaccountable Gestapo? Well, you’re being idealist right into democracy’s collapse.
And to be clear, I’m not worried about your vote. I’m worried about the vote of the people who haven’t gotten the memo, or are in the process of sliding down the spiral of fascism but aren’t there yet. And I’m sure worried about the Rashida Tlaibs and the Berniebros and the leftists who will gladly butcher anything short of ideological purity and stay at home because “nobody has earned their trust”.
If you or Stewart think voting for Biden exempts you from being part of that issue… well, it doesn’t. It doesn’t under normal circumstances, arguably, but right now we’re very far from that point. It’s not like this hasn’t happened before. That’s why I keep going back to “but her emails”. Was it valid criticism? Yes. Did it kill thousands of people during the pandemic? Also yes.
Is the tradeoff worth it? What will the “it’s reasonable to ask if Biden is too old” body count be?
Stewart wasn’t retired, mind you. He’s had a show for the past two years. He only recently got cancelled for speaking of subjects Apple didn’t like.
Also, please don’t rehash our conversation. It’s still written up there. The only possible purpose of that exercise is to put together a straw man. I remember what I said.
You could have skipped to the last line, which is where we disagree and where I think democrats and their larger sphere of influence are repeating a catastrophic mistake.
He’s a campaign staffer. You’re a campaign staffer. Everybody is a campaign staffer until such time as the opposing force isn’t a fascist cult of personality.
If you don’t see that, you’re part of the problem. If Stewart is back to pretending that he can “restore sanity” by acting as if the other side had legitimate concerns that should be heard, he’s part of the problem. That’s not the game we’re playing anymore. If you didn’t realize the rules had changed when Trump won the first time, surely you must have noticed after January 6th, or when the poll numbers of the, again, actual rapist refused to climb down.
So no, his honest statements aren’t irrelevant. They’re a drop in a pond of, once again, information warfare. The wilful blind spots and bothsideism may be naivete or disingenuous misinformation, but my entire point is at this stage it doesn’t mater. They don’t belong. We’re past those. You either play the game we’re all playing or you’re playing for the other guys.
True, he wasn’t retired during that time. I was wrong. He just wasn’t the frontman sitting behind the desk each night.
If you think I’m part of “the problem” because I do not identify as a campaign staffer and do not assign that role to others during an election cycle, or that valid criticisms of candidates are off the table during the election cycle, then we can end the discussion here. As far as I’m concerned, you’re part of the problem because you assume, ultimately, that any nuanced discussion is invalid because Americans are too stupid or ignorant for that kind of discussion to ever be anything more than ammunition for the opposition, which I know isn’t the case. Have a good one!
To be clear, I think being part of the problem isn’t the same as being malicious, hostile or stupid. I think being stubbornly naive about the system working the way it’s supposed to has its uses. It’s a powerful tool to get the corrupt to shy away from breaking the rules if enough people assume the rules will be followed.
But I also think we punched through that wall like a bunker buster dropping from orbit years ago and a lot of the US is a toad that has been simmered to being full-on al dente by this point. Well meaning people hoping to get through this as if it’s… you know, an actual democratic election are part of the problem despite themselves.
I don’t think I’m being “stubbornly naive about the system” by thinking it’s okay for people to engage in nuanced discource. You and I will not agree on this, and I am not interested in further engaging with someone whose hardline rhetoric has gone so far as to demonize valid criticism.
There’s nothing Biden could do to lose my vote in this election, but I’m not going to pretend he’s a perfect candidate. And anyone who thinks we need to treat him as such is deluded. Democrats and progressives (like me) knew he wasn’t a perfect candidate in 2020, but they knew he could garner enough support to beat Trump, and he did. Will he do it again? No idea, but I’m not interested in silencing valid criticisms now any more than I was in 2020, because the game hasn’t changed since then. You think January 6 changed anything? Ask any given Republican if January 6 changed which party they’ll be voting for. There’s your answer.
The game has changed because Republicans will stick with the coup party. That’s my whole point.
If your political rival is willing to violently disrupt the process when they lose you’re not having a fair and free election, and “valid criticism” becomes a distant second priority to… you know, going back to a situation where you get to have a democracy with fair and free elections.
That’s the shift the Stewart approach refuses to acknowledge. And when I say “stubbornly naive” I mean that acting under the fiction that the rules are followed and things will behave how they’re supposed to can be an inspiring, powerful thing. It can shame those who would flip-flop or gloss over procedure or principle to stick to the norms and conventions that keep society afloat.
But there’s no shaming Trump and no shaming the trumpists. And if you’re still hoping to inspire them into reasonableness when the death cult of the rapist orange fascist is actively telling you… what is it this week? That he will fund a completely unaccountable Gestapo? Well, you’re being idealist right into democracy’s collapse.
And to be clear, I’m not worried about your vote. I’m worried about the vote of the people who haven’t gotten the memo, or are in the process of sliding down the spiral of fascism but aren’t there yet. And I’m sure worried about the Rashida Tlaibs and the Berniebros and the leftists who will gladly butcher anything short of ideological purity and stay at home because “nobody has earned their trust”.
If you or Stewart think voting for Biden exempts you from being part of that issue… well, it doesn’t. It doesn’t under normal circumstances, arguably, but right now we’re very far from that point. It’s not like this hasn’t happened before. That’s why I keep going back to “but her emails”. Was it valid criticism? Yes. Did it kill thousands of people during the pandemic? Also yes.
Is the tradeoff worth it? What will the “it’s reasonable to ask if Biden is too old” body count be?