• Telorand@reddthat.com
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    11 months ago

    I agree that Congress is not on the right side of history here, but he’s not entirely wrong. Few people have nuanced views that say Israel and Hamas are bad, and instead try to oversimplify to give people a side to root for.

    It’s a clusterfuck of politics, war crimes, and ancient grudges, and Palestine is stuck between.

    • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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      11 months ago

      So far, I’ve seen far more people claiming someone else is defending Hamas than I’ve seen people actually defending them.

      • Telorand@reddthat.com
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        11 months ago

        I agree. I don’t see other people (other than a relative few on the Fediverse) who see it that way, because they want a clear villain to defeat.

        • Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          11 months ago

          It’s a pretty simple stance to take, you know the “don’t go around killing/maiming/terrorizing/raping random civilians” stance. It shouldn’t be hard to say “treat people with respect”. No matter if they are friend, enemy, or bystander.

    • AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I think there are more than a few people who feel that Israel and Hamas are both bad actors here.

      • Lauchs@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Weird, we only seem to meme about Israel…

        I don’t use tiktok as I think it makes us dumber but I imagine the ratio is relatively similar.

        How many tik toks have you seen about the long history of peace offerings Hamas has refused?

        • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          How many have you seen of Israelis dumping water down the drain to make fun of the Palestinians they don’t have any?

          I’ve seen more than one and I don’t use TikTok.

      • TechyDad@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Those of us who feel like both are to blame tend to be outshouted by the “I ALWAYS STAND WITH ISRAEL NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO” and the “HAMAS ARE JUST FREEDOM FIGHTERS SO ANYTHING THEY DO IS JUSTIFIED” groups. And if we speak up to point out that both groups have issues, we get attacked by both groups for not being on a side and especially for not being on their side.

        One of the big problems with the Middle East is that it’s a messy situation and people like simple narratives. They don’t want to hear a hundred plus years of attacks, revenge attacks, generational trauma, etc. That’s not easy to resolve. Instead, people want to know that A is always good and B is always bad. That’s nice and simple and easy to fix. You just eliminate the bad people and all is well.

        Sadly, the real world is rarely so black and white.

        • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          I feel you, I should not have to lead every criticism of Israel with a criticism of Hamas. I can criticize the fucking government. I don’t think I need to condemn terrorist that everyone knows are already terrorist.

          I expect more from a fucking government than I do of Terrorists.

          But if you just want to do the same stuff that they’re doing, you’re not a good guy so don’t call yourself. Don’t try to pretend to be one just admit that you are what you are, the bad guys, not every situation has good guys

          • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            The reverse is true. Every criticism of Hamas should be led with a criticism of Israel.

            The Palestinians have tried every form of peaceful protest which led to them getting shot by Israel. Hamas is a reaction to Israel’s deeds. That reaction did not appear out of thin air for no reason.

            Saying there are two evils in this situation is a milquetoast take. Hamas is morally gray. Israel is the only real evil party here.

            • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              No, no, they lost all of their great area when they attack a Music festival full of civilians and kidnapped and killed children.

              That is 100% sold in the morally black area

              • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                There is no evidence of Hamas intentionally killing any children. There is plenty of evidence of Hamas sparing children. Almost all of the kids were likely killed by the IDF shelling the Kibbutzes.

                The music festival wasn’t even supposed to be there anymore but was extended so that was just an unlucky coincidence. Hamas leadership stated that this was not planned and wasn’t their goal. Their targets were military bases.

                Also there were armed soldiers at the festival with guns.

                The IDF however does plans to kill children in a children’s hospital that are getting treated from having the leg blown off from the IDF bombing their house. THAT is not a coincidence. They do this with full knowledge, satalite imagery and guided missiles.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    They didn’t kill the baby like israel does though.

                    Also if they didn’t take the baby there was a big risk of the baby being bombed by israeli hellfire missles or shot by israeli tanks so you could say Hamas saved the baby.

                    Sadly the IDF really wanted to kill that baby so they shot a rocket at it when it was in Gaza and managed to kill it. Hamas really did everything they could to save it.

      • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        It’s just super fucking annoying that all of our politicians are stuck in zero-sum tribal thinking, and cannot comprehend that most rational people think Hamas AND the Israeli government are complete psychos, and that the vast majority of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (specifically excluding “settlers”, who are violent, racist, theocratic, nationalist pieces of shit) are simply caught in the middle.