The Chinese leader's message in San Francisco got the attention of U.S. officials because it was delivered at a meeting that was intended to reduce tensions.
  • Heresy_generator@kbin.social
    485·
    6 months ago

    The news media needs to stop using the word “reunify” to refer to the PRC’s threatened imperial conquest of an island they’ve never controlled.

    • kool_newt@lemm.eeEnglish
      164·
      6 months ago

      Yep, this word is used intentionally by Xi and he knows he means “conquer the nation developed by the people that escaped his predecessors”.

      • brambledog@lemmy.todayEnglish
        178·
        6 months ago

        The nation wasn’t developed by the people who escaped. That’s an ahistorical way of framing the issue

        Taiwan was developed by the overthrown proto-fascist military junta who just lost the civil war. After taking the island, they didn’t tell the people of Taiwan that the war had been over and they were no longer China until 1991. The first labor laws outlawing slavery were introduced to the people of Taiwan in 2006. The people of Taiwan still consider themselves China (it is afterall the name they go by, not Taiwan) and full Taiwanese independence is still a minority held belief on the actual island.

        Just to be clear, I am a supporter of their independence, but this is a very messy situation in which the political party who comrade the country is the same fascist party who lost the war in the first place and still maintains to the UN that they are the legitimate government of the mainland. Full separation is convenient for the West, but neither side actually wants that, they just don’t want to be ruled by either fascists or communists, and I think that is incredibly fair for all people actually involved to want.

        • Staccato@lemmy.worldEnglish
          4·
          6 months ago

          full Taiwanese independence is still a minority held belief on the actual island

          Excuse me wut

  • YeetPics@mander.xyzEnglish
    191·
    6 months ago

    “Re-unify” is dipshit-speak for invade, pillage and crush… for anyone wondering.

      • phoenixz@lemmy.caEnglish
        71·
        6 months ago

        Yeah but they actually both wanted it.

        Taiwan, judging from the enormous amounts of military material it has invested in, doesn’t really want to be friends with china, let alone be conquered by it

          • SCB@lemmy.worldEnglish
            22·
            6 months ago

            There is currently one China. It just goes by the name Taiwan. The CCP is as Chinese as my local takeout.

            • Filthmontane@lemmy.worldEnglish
              22·
              6 months ago

              You must be one of those people that can’t accept when civil wars are lost. I’m assuming you’re also waiting for the South to rise again.

              • SCB@lemmy.worldEnglish
                11·
                6 months ago

                Yes Lost Causers are famously aware of world history. That must be it.

                • Filthmontane@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  2·
                  6 months ago

                  If you’re aware of history, then how exactly is China not China? I must’ve missed a century somewhere

      • piecat@lemmy.worldEnglish
        21·
        6 months ago

        And Russia is trying reunification with Ukraine. What’s your point?

      • YeetPics@mander.xyzEnglish
        11·
        6 months ago

        Right, you’re saying that in hindsight.

        When a tyrannous dictator preaches reunification as a descriptor when outlining their future plans the context changes a bit. Hope that helps :)

        • Filthmontane@lemmy.worldEnglish
          27·
          6 months ago

          That’s pure speculation on your part. Xi specifically stated the goal is peaceful reunification.

          • YeetPics@mander.xyzEnglish
            31·
            6 months ago

            speculation

            Well when all the direct quotes I read don’t match the history I have to speculate on what XI really means.

            He said he wants to reunify Taiwan, he didn’t send me a PDF of his specific strategy.

            You’re speculating that it will be peaceful with the same logic.

            I still remember what was happening in Taiwan just a few days before COVID hit. Do you?

            • Filthmontane@lemmy.worldEnglish
              24·
              6 months ago

              The entire idea of reunification is that it is supported by the will of the people. I’m not speculating that it will be peaceful, I’m just pointing out what Xi said. You claiming that he’s lying is speculation.

              • YeetPics@mander.xyzEnglish
                11·
                6 months ago

                You claiming I’m speculating is also speculation. Take your semantic garbage and share it with someone who can respect your thoughts.

                • Filthmontane@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  21·
                  6 months ago

                  Your speculating that I’m speculating is also speculation! You are the one whomst engages in frantic semantic antics!

                  Don’t be mad cuz you’re wrong. Xi Jinping stated that he has plans to peacefully reunify Taiwan and China. How you want to interpret that is up to you, but the media wants you to interpret “peaceful reunification” as “violent invasion.” If you want to believe that, that’s on you.

                  I think China is more than capable of reunification of Taiwan peacefully and invading would be a real dumb idea. Also, according to their own news, only 48.9% of the Taiwanese people support national Independence. So there’s definitely a possibility of China winning the people over.

                  https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2023/09/02/2003805648

          • Maggoty@lemmy.worldEnglish
            32·
            6 months ago

            If you believe that then I have a bridge I’d like to sell you. In fact it’s 2 for 1, but only if you buy by midnight!

          • dvoraqs@lemmy.worldEnglish
            11·
            6 months ago

            Did they say how? Peace would be preferred, but the Taiwanese need to be willing to cooperate.

  • Maggoty@lemmy.worldEnglish
    181·
    6 months ago

    A. Xi said they would prefer to do it peacefully.

    B. Autocratic regimes routinely define “peacefully” as a coup or overnight invasion.

    C. Xi specifically set an atmosphere of strategic uncertainty by saying a time “hadn’t been decided”.

    That tells me they’ve given up on winning elections in Taiwan. If they’re scheduling it then it’s not on Taiwan’s election schedule. Ergo, definitely not peacefully in democratic terms.

    Well it will be interesting at least.

  • S3verin@slrpnk.netEnglish
    193·
    6 months ago

    “Reunify”. Just like Putin tries to reunify Ukraine with Russland… Strange how one is called Invasion and the other Reunifying

    • phoenixz@lemmy.caEnglish
      101·
      6 months ago

      This is xi calling it reunification. It’s just your average land grab invasion based off “but 300 years ago we successfully conquered if and had it for almost a century so we have the right to conquer it again!”

      • hark@lemmy.worldEnglish
        34·
        6 months ago

        But if you’re israel and say GOD gave you that land thousands of years ago, then here’s $100+ billion in addition to the billions already given annually to you to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing.

  • DarkGamer@kbin.social
    32·
    6 months ago

    It’s wild how they’re still obsessed with Taiwan, despite CCP being recognized as China for many decades now. I wonder how much of this is elderly people who still consider the civil war unfinished and how much is strategic. It seems like invading would not be in China’s interest. Perhaps they want to do it before their demographic population collapse occurs.

    • hddsx@lemmy.caEnglish
      42·
      6 months ago

      It’s a Chinese thing. PRC and ROC (officially) both see “China” as including the “province” of Taiwan.

      Part of it is brainwashing on the PRC side - they are taught from elementary school that Taiwan is a part of China. Part of it is ROC stubborness. It’s even a political issue within Taiwan. While the younger generation generally sees Taiwan as an independent country, the KMT and the older generation refuses to let go of mainland China.

      Chinese culture also has the famous line that translates roughly to “after having been united for a while, it must split. After having been split for a while, it must unite” that refers to China in general. Taiwan, HK, and “China” have been split for a bit and the PRC wants to see it reunited.

    • barsoap@lemm.eeEnglish
      03·
      6 months ago

      It’s that “saving face” stuff which makes you lose even more face by looking silly.

  • Coreidan@lemmy.worldEnglish
    77·
    6 months ago

    If trying to invade Taiwan weakens china like it did with Russia invading Ukraine then I’m all for it. Fuck china

    • hark@lemmy.worldEnglish
      82·
      6 months ago

      Throwing other people’s bodies into the meat grinder to spite our global enemies, heck yes!!!

      • Maggoty@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        6 months ago

        They aren’t. They’re trying to reform their military, and they’re in a better position to do so. But if they invaded today it would be really bad for them.

        • Isthisreddit@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          6 months ago

          It would be bad for everyone. Not just in military casualties - from my shit analysis it would bring the world to a halt with chip manufacturing, all the good in the western world are made in China and Asia. Just thinking about what I know makes my head hurt

          • Maggoty@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            6 months ago

            Eh, manufacturing is moving more into SE Asia and India now. And chip production in the US is coming back online. There would be shortages but not anything unmanageable.

            • Isthisreddit@lemmy.worldEnglish
              21·
              6 months ago

              You are not taking into account china can lock down shipping from it’s neighborhood of SE Asia and India, and last I looked into it, Taiwan produced a staggering number of chips compared to every other chip producer combined - last I checked TSMC was still producing over 90% of the worlds chips (and I checked a few weeks ago)

              • Maggoty@lemmy.worldEnglish
                3·
                6 months ago

                TSMC has factories online in the US.

                Also, if China starts going after global shipping then they’re going to very quickly find out what it’s like to fight the entire world.

  • ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ@lemm.eeEnglish
    01·
    6 months ago

    bla bla… but everyone still buys shit from china… you use iphones, chrome and everything as long as it is convenient for you… and then do the butthurt cry here. hows that supposed to change anything?

    • version_unsorted@lemmy.mlEnglish
      2·
      6 months ago

      Yeah, voting with your dollar definitely will make the change, just buy something else and struggle a bit harder, that change is right around the corner /s

  • naturalgasbad@lemmy.caEnglish
    25·
    6 months ago

    China wants to maintain the status quo and believes (perhaps wrongly) that Taiwan will eventually normalize relations with China due to economic opportunities.

    The US wants Taiwan to declare independence to contain the China threat, which is why the US funnels so many resources from government-funded entities like the National Endowment for Democracy to Taiwan’s DPP.

    The fact that the US is taking more overt action in Taiwan today is a sign that there’s a perception in Washington that China’s status quo strategy is working.

    • Heresy_generator@kbin.social
      62·
      6 months ago

      Horseshit. That status quo has always been a Taiwan free of CCP rule. The PRC has never controlled Taiwan and their stated goal is to make it part of their country by any means necessary; that’s disrupting that status quo. The US, on the other hand, supports the status quo of the ROC existing and the people of Taiwan being allowed to decide what they want for themselves.

      Even the most shameless CCP propagandist should realize that trying to convince people of the ridiculous lie that the country promising imperial conquest of land that’s never been theirs “wants to maintain the status quo” is foolish nonsense.

      • naturalgasbad@lemmy.caEnglish
        14·
        6 months ago

        The status quo is Taiwan having de facto independence without seeking de jure independence.

        It’s not that complicated.

        • Heresy_generator@kbin.social
          4·
          6 months ago

          So, again, your original assertions are horseshit. The PRC is very explicitly trying to change the status quo of Taiwan having de facto independence. We know this from repeated, unequivocal official and unofficial statements about “reunification”. This article is, in fact, about exactly that.

          Your assertion that the US is trying to change the status quo by supporting the DPP might make sense in a world where the PRC wasn’t supporting the KMT to an ever greater extent; either they’re both equally trying to disrupt the status quo through political support or they’re both maintaining the status quo by supporting opposing parties. You can’t paint a “US guilty, PRC innocent” picture out of that no matter how hard you try.

          But then, of course, suggesting either major political party in Taiwan actually supports or is proposing a change to the status quo isn’t really true either, is it?

          • naturalgasbad@lemmy.caEnglish
            15·
            6 months ago

            The KMT supports the status quo, the DPP wants to flip it on its head.

            Are you even Taiwanese?

            Edit: classic Westerners trying to put words in the mouths of the people who actually have to deal with the actions driven by their words

        • barsoap@lemm.eeEnglish
          02·
          6 months ago

          The ROC was independent and sovereign before the PRC was even a thing. If anything it’s the autonomous mainland provinces which need to seek de jure independence from the ROC. The PRC should be thankful that the ROC by now is, by and large, willing to grant such a request (There’s some Kuomintang who’d bitch and moan but they’d get over it).

  • kool_newt@lemm.eeEnglish
    49·
    6 months ago

    China is hostage state that nurtures Stockholm Syndrome in it’s population (similar to DPRK and others). You can only “leave” if it’s deemed useful and safe for China (i.e. you have Stockholm Syndrome strongly enough). And those that leave are still under control, i.e. their (edited) behavior can be coerced by using carrot and stick methods on their family and loved ones.