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You know, that interview isn’t as bad a proof that he’s a douche as people make it out to be.
I’m not saying he isn’t douche, he is. I’m just saying that specific interview wasn’t damning the way it’s been made out to be. What that interview points out and proves is that he’s old and arrogant and doesn’t bother to think.
It’s his actions in the rest of his life that damn him as a douche.
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There’s a thing Martin Luther King Jr said, that’s partially quotedHere, and I apologize for the source, but I’m a busy bee this morning and that’s the first link I could find that covered it.
Anyway, the point being is that this guy personifies exactly what MLK was saying. Outwardly an American liberal (which isn’t really the same thing that everyone everywhere uses the word liberal for, hence the specification). On the surface, he’s all for the typical ideas of equality and humanity that the word liberal is supposed to cover. But underneath, he convinces himself he’s not racist or sexist because he’s willing to vote and speak around those ideas.
But, in practice, he’s internalized the same patriarchal, bigoted fallacies as many other people do. Mind you, it is difficult to abandon the sense of superiority that thinking you’re open minded gives you long enough to actually examine yourself. And it’s his arrogance that makes it unlikely he’ll ever do the kind of self examination necessary to police himself enough to try and change.
That arrogance was reinforced by the power he held.
I mean, I don’t hate the guy. For one, hating some random stranger is a waste of energy. But he isn’t unique in his failings. Damn near every human on the planet fails at the kind of self examination necessary to see themselves as flawed. Even the best efforts can fail because it’s just so damn hard to look at yourself and divorce that view from your own inner thoughts and motivations. Being objective about the self is hard. Even when someone knows all of that, actually pulling off that objectivity is a long road filled with potholes. I know I sure as fuck fail at it often.
I just wish he be an outlier than a norm.
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Just read it, holy fucking fuck.
Good for her.
Even if you are not a fan, her legacy and impact is indisputable.
Did you just “you’re god damn right” yourself?
Did you just ”Oh, you’re right. And when you’re right, you’re right” yourself?
I’ll never forget her ethereal performance as Bill Murray’s alarm clock in Groundhog’s Day.
She was robbed at the Oscar’s that year.
I am indifferent to both Cher and the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. I’m surprised I even put in the effort to post this comment.
Thank you for your contribution.
Edit: nah
Being real though, the fact that Rosetta godsblessed Tharpe was not in the very fucking first induction is proof the whole thing is bullshit. Sister Tharpe gave fucking birth to rock n roll. The fucking BEASTIE BOYS were in there before her. I fucking love them, but they aren’t rock n roll at all.
You can look at how many foundational rock n roll artists still aren’t listed, while non rock acts get in for hype.
It’s an empty, bullshit entity created to make money, not give real respect to artists.
Jimi Hendrix was the keystone transformation in rock and paved the pathway to metal, as well as bringing electric guitars into the mainstream and being the first known artist to incorporate distortion into his music as he did. The whammy bar was a novelty before Hendrix. And before he used a whammy bar, he’d produce distortion by holding his guitar specific ways around his speakers to use the feedback purposefully.
I swear Jimi Hendrix must have been a savant…
I agree that the rock n roll hall of fame is a sham organization, but Jimi Hendrix was the greatest influence on rock and I will die on this hill!
Did you reply to the wrong comment? Because I don’t get how arguing that one person should be in the hall of fame is an argument either for or against an argument that other foundational people should also have been in the hall of fame from the start.
Jim’s great, no argument there, but he’s much more a transformational force in a later generation of Rock 'n Roll than anything like a founding father/mother.
The idea that random people pick a select few musicians to be inducted is just more artificial scarcity bullshit. It’s not a legitimate institution if it can’t recognize more people to give a wider breadth of exposure to the legacy of rock n roll. By inducted some, they pretend they have the authority to determine the legacy of rock n roll, but their snubs say more about their deficiencies than about those they snub.
Agree. But I dont think she “change the music forever” with Believe, as she claims.
Why does a pop singer care about rock and roll hall of
fame? Do they induct pop singers as well?I’m not sure if you’re being factitious or not but, yes, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inducts pop music. In fact, it is, by definition for pop music as it is a record of the music that has influenced our society through popularity. The museum is great, and the idea of a HoF for rockstars is fun, serious and laughable. Cher absolutely belongs in it, but they only allow so many in each year… I do hope she gets in during her lifetime.
Not being facetious. I haven’t ever paid attention to the rock and roll Hall of Fame, so I always assumed that it was rock and roll artists who were inducted into it rather than other genres.
That would be a fair assumption, but very incorrect these days.
It’s become a joke that they leave out talented rock musicians and induct popular country, pop, and rap artists now.
Pop is a genre, an actual style of music, not simply whatever is popular. Sometimes using a word like ‘popular’ in a genre name is a bad idea
See also: modern art, and the unwieldy term ‘post-modern’.
Do they induct pop singers as well?
Yes the Beatles are in.
Whitney Houston was inducted a couple of years ago. You don’t get more pop that than that, she was not rock at all; that year, she beat out Motörhead, Judas Priest, and Todd Rundgren. I don’t see how she influenced rock music, and yet, she even beat out someone who inspired her, and whose music is more closely related to rock than hers was, Chaka Khan.
I’m not saying she wasn’t incredibly talented, just that either she just doesn’t belong in the Rock n Roll HoF, or that the institution itself is a joke that shouldn’t exist.
Anyway, yeah, they induct pop singers.
Yeah all the answers I’ve seen so far either dismiss this or discuss the word “pop”.
“Believe” was pop, and did she particularly do rock a lot? Cause I can’t recall. And I’m sure she’s awesome, but that still doesn’t automatically make her eligible for a rock and roll hall of fame.
So either she did rock (and roll), or the name of this list is basically wrong, or she doesn’t belong on there.
And don’t get me wrong, if she really doesn’t care, good for her. No need to be pissed you don’t get a price, ppl will probably recognize your impact even without a price.
Tbf, there aren’t a lot of women on that list. I saw Jay Z and no Beyonce? Tina Turner is alongside Ike? Idk, from that list, she probably shouldn’t take it personally, they don’t seem to dig chicks doing music. https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/a-z
I dunno, I think it’s pretty reasonable for “chicks” to take that personally.
They should put her in the Hall just because of this action. Maybe put a sticker saying “we rocked you”. That’d be such a rock-ish thing to do.
why should i care if a museum thinks music is good
Because someone’s favourite artists isn’t in there, even tho they probably don’t want to be.
The fact that willie nelson is in there is some grade a bullshit.
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Cher has been around decades before auto-tune even existed.
What!? You mean she was a singer prior to 1998!?
Nothing existed before The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer’s table.
Him hitting the table caused the Big Bang!
Is MetaStatic ShittyMorph??
Technically, if you count her big break as the alarm clock song from Groundhog Day.
Sure but the article specifically mentions autotune being a Cher first thing.
The ubiquitous robotic Auto-Tune effect? Cher did that first.
Motherfuckers never heard of a vocoder before.
Also it’s hilarious that other motherfuckers think that auto tune effect was supposed to hide imperfections in her singing and not be a blatant and intentional vocal effect.
“Believe” is a cheesy ass tune, tho
It wasn’t a vocoder in Believe but they did lie and say it was initially to keep it a trade secret.
My friend auto tune did not exist in 1965 yet she still topped the 100 billard chart. She can more then carry a tune. Don’t diminish skill because you don’t like her style.
Maybe read the article first.
That was one point the article brought up, not exactly her sole claim to (rock) fame.
It’s a pretty big claim she’s making. I think that’s why OC is refuting it.
“Refute” implies that they successfully argued their case, which they haven’t.
No it doesn’t.
I did. Did I miss something specifically? This posturing is not helpful to your point. No wants to believe a jackass even if they are right.
The ubiquitous robotic Auto-Tune effect? Cher did that first
“I changed music forever with ‘Believe.'”
Hey - me again.
I didn’t mean to be a jackass, I was just skimming through and yours was the second comment I saw along the same line of thought within minutes, which is why I gave a curt response. I realize now that the comments were so close together that you probably didn’t even see the first one.
All that to say - sorry for being a dick, I just wanted to highlight that OC was arguing the autotune thing, not the whole article (or the headline).
Cher wasn’t the first to use Auto-tune; she was the first to use it to intentionally distort vocals as an artistic choice rather than for minor pitch corrections.
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