Things that are so obvious and ingrained that no one even thinks about them.
Here’s a few:
All US americans can go to Mexico EASILY. You’re supposed to have a passport but you don’t even need one (for car/foot crossing). Versus, it’s really hard for Mexicans, who aren’t wealthy, to secure a VISA to enter the US. I’m sure there are corollaries in other geo-regions.
Another one is wealthy countries having access to vaccines far ahead of “poor” countries.
In US, we might pay lip service to equal child-hood education but most of the funding pulls from local taxes so some kids might receive ~$10000 in spending while another receives $2000. I’m not looking it up at the moment, but I’m SURE there are strong racial stratas.
Yeah sorry about that, can’t keep track of everyone so I went back to assuming everyone on the internet is a guy. Anyway, do you deny that George Floyd has become larger than life, symbolic and important in a way that is bigger and more pure than he ever was in real life, despite his shortcomings as a person?
Are you going to answer any of my questions?
George Floyd’s criminal record is not comparable to owning hundreds of chattel slaves. They are different leagues. The fact that you are trying to force this comparison is deeply racist, just like I said like 5 comments ago.
Even if we entertain your line of thinking I still disagree. George Floyd represents the fight against the white supremacist cruelty of the American police state. The founding fathers represent an America that exists to serve landowning white men. If you want to somehow make that seem like a good thing you have to answer for America’s crimes which I listed like 5 comments ago.
The founding fathers do not represent an America that exists to serve landowning white men, at least not to the majority of the country. To many people, they symbolize something else entirely that is bigger and better than the men that they actually were, something noble, independent, freedom-loving, bold, courageous, and all that. Again, regardless of how true it is, they serve as an idea at this point.
But for you they serve as the opposite sort of symbol, one of oppression, greed, selfishness. The founding fathers were both of these, and what they represent to different people depends on perspective and world view.
If it wasn’t for the constant propaganda that Americans are exposed to far fewer people would think that the founding fathers symbolize that. People believing in lies doesn’t make the crimes of the founding fathers acceptable. And believing those lies causes people to blind themselves to the reality of America and its crimes. When people believe something other than the truth it leads them into a future that doesn’t learn from the past.
Look at how much the situation in Palestine is changing the opinions of America. Many people are seeing the full extent of America’s violent foreign policy. It’s shaking their belief in America as something noble and freedom loving. I believe this is a good thing. More people’s political opinions will be rooted in the truth. It could effect how people vote, protest, organize. I think this could lead to positive change.
Are you saying that people shouldn’t care about the truth? What is your point exactly? You haven’t actually stated any belief. Is it important to you that America is seen as noble, independent, freedom-loving, bold and courageous? Why is it important to you that the founding fathers are seen this way? Why do you think its ok for people to believe lies when they’ve never been offered the truth? Why do you value the mythology of the founding fathers more than the reality of the founding fathers? You called me childish for caring about the truth of the founding fathers, and for not valuing the lies about the founding fathers. This is insane to me.
Some people’s perspective and worldview are wrong. It seems like you think tribalism is when someone thinks their worldview is right and someone else’s is wrong. What is your political ideology? That seems like a centrist take if I’ve ever seen one.
I’ve been accused of being a centrist before. What makes you think that your world view, your life experience is worth more than mine? Whose experience is more real, more true? I think tribalism is when you think your world view is the only one that matters, that anyone who agrees with it is part of your tribe, and anyone who doesn’t see it that way is in a different tribe. Tribalism is instinctive and getting rid of it requires open minded exposure to people with different world views.
George Washington wearing dentures made of slave teeth is not “life experience.” Its a simple historical fact. I have no desire to base my beliefs on mythology. I base my beliefs on fact. I cannot have a discussion about Washington without mentioning the facts of his life. This includes talking about his crimes against humanity. You think I am immature and childish because I don’t value beliefs about washington unless they are based in the facts of his life. You value mythology and historical fact similarly. Serious discussion requires a foundation of fact. You are fundamentally unserious.
I love how you are so carefully avoiding committing any beliefs or assertions to this discussion. All you do is try and poke holes in what I say. When I respond you hide behind rudimentary, “everything is relative” arguments. You are the philosophical equivalent of, “I know you are but what am I?”
What is your political ideology?
I can’t really sum up my ideology or identity in a word or a political team, but in general I’m proud of my country while recognizing that we’ve had a dark past and we have plenty of work to do today as well, despite great strides and an overall very high quality of life. The fact that we have the luxury of dedicating so much time debating these issues alone is evidence of this.
Probably the single most important phrase in my life when it comes to debating controversial topics is that where there is understanding, there can be no hatred. Everyone has a different life experience, different challenges and trials, different education, different family and upbringing.
Some of my core values are independence, self reliance, charity, forgiveness, hard work, and prudence. I live very modestly but comfortably enough and I got this life because of my upbringing and my own hard work and believe that others can also despite probably having more challenging upbringings. My ancestors immigrated in the early 1900s looking for a better life, chasing the so called American dream, worked as miners in small company owned houses. The first generation was very poor, but subsequent generations have done ok.
I believe that we should live as though we control our own futures, and mostly we do. Our own happiness and contentment in life is at our control, and outside factors beyond our control are not worth compromising on that happiness. It’s very similar to ancient stoic philosophy.
I teach my kids the value of hard work, saving money, but giving to less fortunate people. I provide for them, but with few luxuries. If they want something, they need to earn it and get it for themselves. They cannot expect things from other people, but should be thankful and appreciative when others help them, which in turn should inspire them to want to help others.
It is my biggest and most important duty to provide for my family and instill in them my own core values.
I believe that the United States is a great place to raise a family, providing an environment where they can succeed and be free to pursue their own contentment in life.
At the moment I’m having a hard time finding a political team that fits these values, since politics is so focused on hot button issues that serve more to divide people than to actually improve everyone’s lives. I’d love it if there were more teams, but the system we have more or less works.
Your political ideology is ”liberal”, although an even more appropriate term would be ”bootlicker”. The only way you see the world is through the lens of ”memememememe fuck you got mine”, and thus you think the US is good because muh treats. You don’t stop to consider the butchered civilians or exploited global south residents necessary to get your treats and ”high quality of life”.
Don’t try to pretend like your way of thinking is somehow unique or can’t be put into a box, maaaaan, because I’ve seen it a million times before.
Let’s be real though, everyone except you are your little tribe is a liberal, which is like 99 percent of the country. So that doesn’t really mean much.
Your political ideology is just the status quo. You have a life you’re ok with and you just want everyone else to calm down so you can enjoy it. The funny thing is that you have made zero effort to actually justify your ideology. Everyone else has written all these reasons why your line of thinking doesn’t work. All you can respond with is, “why can’t we all just get along??” Say what you will about my ideology, leftist, making me angrier or unhappy with our politicians and system. I don’t spend any energy deluding myself into anything. I’m not surprised when the system fails its people in the ways its intended to. It also helps me connect with many different kinds of people, because I care about their struggles.
the system is currently supporting two genocides, one in palestine and one in the congo. What part of your humanity do you have to sacrifice to not care about these atrocities? Are you even aware of how your denial of other’s humanity also compromises yours?
You have a cowards ideology.
It’s almost like we are speaking different languages, and I’m not surprised to be attacked coming in here. The reason I have a hard time responding to “facts” is that over the years I’ve spent countless hours researching various topics only to find that you get different answers depending on what you look for. Not only that but truth is different and history gets rewritten over the years. In my youth there were rallying cries to free tibet. People like you protested angrily, guilt tripped average folks about being callous and cruel for not caring. Now years later in this very thread I’m told that the Chinese did a great thing freeing tibetan slaves and so on. It’s hard not to be cynical when you can find evidence and justification for anything you want to. I’ve got right wing friends doing the same thing you are doing, trying to guilt trip me for not paying attention or not caring about the crimes committed by the left. They send me articles and facts all the time. How do you really know what the truth is? Change your algorithm and start looking for evidence to support the opposite perspective and you will start getting different facts. It all starts to feel arbitrary and the only real truth is right in front of you.
Revolutionaries like the people in here are always around. They can’t accept injustice and have no answer except to tear it all down and start over.