• guacupado@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    72
    arrow-down
    28
    ·
    8 months ago

    They shouldn’t have any fucking supporters. This is the shit all the anti-Israel people are supporting. I’m no fan of Netanyahu but wtf do they expect Israel to do? It’s like everyone forgot what prompted this and thinks Israel just woke up one morning and decided to raze everything because they were bored.

    • Serdan@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      8 months ago

      I’m no fan of Netanyahu but wtf do they expect Israel to do?

      I expect them not to commit war crimes at a bare minimum.

    • Elliott@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      8 months ago

      Are you suggesting that when Israel bombs a refugee camp and kills all those innocent people that somehow that is a reasonable response?

      • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        8 months ago

        It’s a disproportionate response, and misdirected. But it is definitely a response to something real, which the more rabid anti-Israel types seem to gloss over.

        • Elliott@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          Israel has a right to defend itself, but they’re bombing refuge camps.

          • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            Yes it’s a humanitarian disaster through and through, and the government response is internationally humiliating for Israel. I felt the same way when the USA started carpet bombing Baghdad after 9/11, although that was far worse and made much less sense.

              • feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                I’m not arrogant enough to think I have sufficient knowledge or access to reliable enough information to make that judgement. I can certainly say it’s a humanitarian disaster and tragedy.

      • smokingManhole@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        8 months ago

        Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

        What did you expect? Do you think that hitting a wasp nest with a rod just once means you’ll only be stung once because you only hit it once? There’s no rule stating that the wasps must respond with equal magnitude. If people are now getting hurt, it’s because someone provoked the wasps. The notion that reactions must be proportionate to the offense is quite naive.

        • Alien Nathan Edward@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          Idk what’s more hilarious here, the implication that a Palestinian baby deserves to die because of what Hamas did or the implication that Jews are hyperaggressive animals that are completely incapable of moral reasoning.

          • smokingManhole@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            8 months ago

            Are you focusing solely on the casualties involving children? Does that mean any location with children is off-limits for retaliation, providing a shield for adversaries because children are present? This is not a simple game of hide and seek, nor is it your idealistic world where a slap is met with a turned cheek.

            It’s a common misconception that supporters of Israel are indifferent to the death of children or any civilian, for that matter, and you seem to be perpetuating this narrative. You choose the most objectionable point about an opponent to make an accusation, and, much like someone obstinately arguing without listening to reason, you consider yourself morally superior and in the right.

            What, in your opinion, would be a suitable response to an attack from Hamas? Would peaceful protests, international condemnation, or sanctions suffice?

            If you’ve discarded your spine, don’t assume everyone else has done the same. An entity without the ability to react appropriately can only succumb.

        • theluckyone@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          8 months ago

          If I get stung by a wasp nest sitting on my neighbor’s house, I do not have the right to burn down my neighbor’s house with them in it.

          Hamas, the IDF, and the Israeli are all murderers. They all have blood on their hands.

          • smokingManhole@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            8 months ago

            Your narrative would hold if it weren’t flawed; it’s an oversimplification. Let’s take your perspective where Hamas is the bees that stung Israel, and now Israel is retaliating against the land harboring the bee nest. (I use ‘bees’ here to distinguish from my earlier wasp analogy).

            If your neighbor disliked the bees as much as you and agreed the nest was a problem, then certainly, destroying it with care to avoid collateral damage would be wise. However, the situation changes if your neighbor is a beekeeper who shields the bees in his home to protect them from you. If those bees become aggressive and harm your family, naturally, you’d first request the neighbor to remove the bees. Should they refuse, you’d have every right to seek external help. But what if the authorities do little, leaving you to suffer the stings while your neighbor faces minimal consequences? Rather than passively endure this, you might feel compelled to act independently to prevent future stings and deter the beekeeper from maintaining this threat.

            • theluckyone@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              8 months ago

              Bullshit.

              No government nor military should not get a carte blanche for murdering innocent civilians in the process of fighting a terrorist organization.

              If you can’t figure that one out on your own, I’m not debating with you.

              • smokingManhole@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                8 months ago

                Okay, then let’s hypothetically say Israel forms a terrorist organization that doesn’t overlap with the Israeli government itself, would they then have the right to attack Gaza? This organization would essentially be in the same position relative to Israel as Hamas is to the Palestinians.

                The way you debate reminds me of someone who might have abandoned their education prematurely. Are you going to complain to the teacher because you cannot acknowledge that your reasoning is flawed, incomplete, and biased? Your approach to this discussion is quite frankly, absurd.

      • Reddit_Is_Trash@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        14
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        These fuckers kidnapped US citizens, they deserve 100% of whatever bombs we throw at them until our people are freed.

    • nutsack@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      8 months ago

      being both anti-israel and anti-hamas at the same time is the only correct position i don’t understand why this isn’t obvious

      • Cowars@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        8 months ago

        Because Hamas is the only resistance Palestinians have against the colonizer.

        • nutsack@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          8 months ago

          it isn’t, actually. they have a government with a prime minister and a president which oppose hamas and which netanyahu wants nobody to pay attention to because they are the legitimate path to statehood

          • Cowars@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            Well then Netanyahu is doing a great job because I heard that Hamas was elected by the palestinians and I never heard about another Palestinian government.

            • nutsack@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              it was elected a long time ago and since then they have fallen out of favor and there was never an election again

    • Llamalitmus@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      16
      ·
      8 months ago

      You just gotta take that line of thought one step further. I believe in you.

    • Mrkawfee@lemmy.world
      cake
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      18
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      What prompted this? You mean the decades of occupation? Or are you suggesting history only began with the Hamas attack?

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
      cake
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      8 months ago

      Well, that not totally incorrect. The settlers starting moving in (before the nation was a thing) and started killing and displacing the existing inhabitants. It’s been bad from the start, though they have had periods that are better than others. People excuse Israel for what Hamas has done, but rarely do those same people forgive Hamas for what the Jewish settlers have done.

      Personally, I don’t make a judgment on Hamas. They are a much weaker force against a much stronger force. If they fight a conventional war then they don’t stand a chance. Gorilla warfare/terrorism is the only viable option for them. Israel uses terrorism every day, but it’s only bad when Hamas does it?

      I do judge Israel. They are a strong force, and more importantly are getting support from many other powerful nations. Until my country (the US) stops sending support, I will criticize their actions. I do not condone my money going towards what they do.