The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanon’s southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023.

The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanon’s southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023.

  • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.ccEnglish
    202·
    1 year ago

    From the UN:

    The popular understanding of what constitutes genocide tends to be broader than the content of the norm under international law. Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements:

    There’s a few from Al Jazeera but to prevent collective screeching i left it out.

    • Quokka@quokk.auEnglish
      182·
      1 year ago

      Wow you can’t just bring up some made up noname nonsense like the UN, they’re antisemitic terrorists!

      I only trust real sources like Israeli newspapers.

      • galloog1@lemmy.worldEnglish
        313·
        1 year ago

        There UN source simply defines them at war, not genocide. Name a war that did not produce suffering. The UN source does not show that they are intentionally targeting a people, just that they are suffering as they target the elected Hamas government.

        • grte@lemmy.caEnglish
          101·
          1 year ago

          Elected how many years ago? What was the average age in Gaza, again?

          If we want to talk about elected governments, the genocidal Israeli government has much more legitimacy in claiming it represents it’s constituents.

          • galloog1@lemmy.worldEnglish
            37·
            1 year ago

            Literally no one is questioning Israel’s legitimacy in government except Hamas. Nobody here in this thread is anyway.

            You still missed the point though as they are not doing collective punishment. Collateral damage is not collective punishment.

            • grte@lemmy.caEnglish
              71·
              1 year ago

              The point was you keep mentioning Hamas as an elected government even though that is laughable at this point, whereas the people of Israel seem to be pretty on board with genocide.

              As for collective punishment, I think the entire population of Gaza has been suffering collective punishment for years, but certainly the moment Israel cut off food, power, and water they were engaging in collective punishment. Like really obviously, you’d have to be either really dumb or really dishonest to say otherwise.

              • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tfEnglish
                71·
                1 year ago

                He’s Israeli, it’s in his material interests to pretend his country isn’t doing exactly what they publicly admit they’re doing.

              • galloog1@lemmy.worldEnglish
                38·
                1 year ago

                I agree that Hamas should not be the government of Palestine and that the people would have difficulty removing them even if they wanted them gone. Who do you suggest should do it? I still do not understand what the legitimacy of the Israeli government has to do with the legitimacy of the Palestinian one.

                Israel is at war right now. Certainly, the literal laws have changed to that of armed conflict. Making claims against it that do not cite international laws that they are signatory to are irrelevant. I don’t think understanding the legal status of the conflict is me being dumb or dishonest. It certainly shows that I may not be talking on the same level of education or experience. That’s the funny thing about the internet. You never really know exactly who or what you are talking to.

                • Sunforged@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  Hamas became the leadership in Gaza because Isreal funded religious extremism that became Hamas to oppose the PLO, part of which was the secular democratic socialist Fatah party led by Yassar Arafat.

                  Isreal is responsible for the violence and more violence will not end this conflict unless genocide is the goal.

                  • galloog1@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    1·
                    1 year ago

                    So, that’s why relations immediately soured between them when the election was over? There is no possibility at all that what you are saying was the intended result or effect of Israel even if true.

                    This narrative is also completely fabricated to decrease Palistinian autonomy. Yasser Arafat’s death is largely considered to be what caused the instability. Your narrative only works to continue the narrative that the Palistinians should not have a sovereign state more than any distrust of Israel.

    • galloog1@lemmy.worldEnglish
      511·
      1 year ago

      Based on those definitions, what Israel went through is considered genocide against them and multiple times including the recent attacks as they absolutely targeted Israeli civilians.

      This is an overly broad definition and includes literally every war ever. Air strikes against seemingly military targets that end up not being military targets does not constitute genocide. Not by a long shot.

      Your UN article simply states that there is suffering. Name a single war where that wasn’t the case. Is all war genocide? Your other articles simply define that they are at war in response to a massive terrorist attack. That is not genocide by this definition as it does not define the difference between a justified defensive war and a genocide.

      Israel was at war the second they were attacked. War is not pretty. It is not genocide. You would be far better off scoping your argument outside of the confines of the current conflict as they were attacked by an elected organization by Palestine.

      • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.ccEnglish
        131·
        1 year ago

        Based on those definitions, what Israel went through is considered genocide against them and multiple times including the recent attacks as they absolutely targeted Israeli civilians.

        Yes.

        This is an overly broad definition and includes literally every war ever.

        Yes, that’s literally what the Geneva Conventions is about.

        Air strikes against seemingly military targets that end up not being military targets does not constitute genocide. Not by a long shot.

        One casualty, no. Twenty casualty, no, but that might be a war crime. Eight thousands casualty and rising, including hostages, that is a large group. It include targeting refugee camp, place of worship that house refugees, hospital, evacuation route, that is genocide.

        Your UN article simply states that there is suffering. Name a single war where that wasn’t the case. Is all war genocide?

        Terrible argument because that’s not how genocide is defined, 0 point for the mental gymnastic. Genocide is a motive, not all war is genocide. But yes, a lot of war tend to consist the element of genocide because of one stronger group trying to eliminate a weaker group, including Israel - Palestine conflict, where Israel has been oppressing Palestine for decades.

        Your other articles simply define that they are at war in response to a massive terrorist attack.

        Apply the context of the article to the definition of genocide.

        That is not genocide by this definition as it does not define the difference between a justified defensive war and a genocide.

        Genocide did not define whether it’s defensive nor offensive, nor the Geneva Conventions give a shit about how you think it should be. As it stand, being the defensive party does not give them any right to commit the atrocity they’re currently doing.

        Israel was at war the second they were attacked. War is not pretty. It is not genocide.

        Using your line of thinking, Hamas is not genocidal group because war is not pretty.

        You would be far better off scoping your argument outside of the confines of the current conflict as they were attacked by an elected organization by Palestine.

        And in return, they murdered 8000 non-combatant of the people that they successfully dehumanised, just like all the conflict they have with Palestine for decades.

        Holocaust Denial Trope also detailed on what people do to deny the holocaust, but lets swap some letter:

        • Details of the Holocaust Palestinian Genocide Have Been Exaggerated
        • Witness Testimony is Fabricated or Inaccurate
        • Jews Hamas Invented the Holocaust Palestinian Genocide for Financial and Political Gain
        • The Holocaust Palestinian Genocide is a Zionist Hamas Political Tool
        • Jews Palestinian are Responsible for Their Own Persecution

        Wouldn’t be too far off from what is happening today.

    • SirToxicAvenger@lemm.eeEnglish
      29·
      1 year ago

      isnt that’s hamas’s goal though? they want to drive Israeli into the sea and create a new arab caliphate. not going to get there without massive genocide.