This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.

    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      114
      arrow-down
      38
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      No. Hundreds of thousands will die in response to hundreds dying. The comic is still fully accurate even if “a single missile” is still condemnable.

        • jmankman
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          40
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          Shall we begin an era of endless terror by proving it works?

          Just look at the US military, we already have

        • explodicle@local106.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          I felt just like this after 9/11. I don’t know enough about your country to tell you what the right thing to do is. But I wish that the USA could go back in time and just gradually assassinate Al Queda with the CIA instead or something. Those occupations were doomed from the start.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            31
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            1 year ago

            The CIA is literally the reason the Al Queda exists. has consistently been the biggest force funding and training terrorists groups around the world. Al Queda is just the modern iteration on the Mujahideen whom US was propping up in the 80s.

            • KNova@links.dartboard.social
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Yup. Listen to the latest season of Blowback podcast. CIA sheltered/evacuated a bunch of Al Quaeda leaders right before the invasion of Afghanistan began.

          • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            The US government at the time did not want to do any such thing. Project For A New American Century, the think tank most of the Bush administration officials came from, openly wrote about how they were hoping for a “new Pearl Harbor” they could use to take the US into war with Iraq. Later, President Bush got a memo about how Al Qaeda was going to attack the US mainland and he did nothing. Then 9/11 happened and the government lied the country into a war with Iraq. What part of this makes you think they were going to do anything about Al Qaeda (other than giving them more funds maybe)?

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          29
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          1 year ago

          Where did I mock the victims? Do not put words in my mouth. Can you not make a half-sound argument without lying?

            • GitProphet@lemmy.sdfeu.org
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              29
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              From what I can see, @[email protected] is not mocking the victims of this tragedy, but rather criticising the media for writing about the israeli deaths caused by the hamas attack, yet hardly making a sound about the palestine deaths caused by israel.

        • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          22
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It IS NOT a disproportionate representation. THAT’S THE POINT.

          I am very sorry you fail to realize what death Israel will doll out in response, but this comic is completely accurate in the proportions displayed.

          You LITERALLY have fighter jets and bombers striking back against … paragliders with guns…

          Again, NO ONE except fucking losers are saying Hamas did anything good. That doesn’t make murdering dozens of thousands of Palestinians OK.

      • datelmd5sum@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        16
        ·
        1 year ago

        I don’t think disproportionate response doctrine from countries like the US and Israel should come as a surprise after more than half a century of conflict. Why murder 100 innocent people of your opponent when you know they will murder 1000 innocents of your people in response?

        • ComradeChairmanKGB@lemmygrad.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          It may not be a surprise but it’s still disgusting and worth calling out.

          Take 9/11 for an example, in response to a few thousand dying, America invaded Iraq (who was not even responsible) and killed several orders of magnitude more people. As well as looting their wealth, subordinating their government and economy to American interests, and effectively occupying them for two decades. Anytime an American says “never forget” they should be reminded how thoroughly soaked in blood they are.

          Likewise, when zionists shed crocodile tears for a few hundred dead festival goers who were depraved enough to go raving only a few short kilometers from the world’s largest concentration camp. They must be reminded of what they have done to Palestine. Invasion. Displacement. Occupation. Ethnic cleansing. Apartheid. Imprisonment. Genocide.

    • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      45
      arrow-down
      19
      ·
      1 year ago

      “history repeats itself” as in the people who only condemn needless killing when Hamas does it, but ignore the Palestinian cause the rest of the time.

      • DarkGamer@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        49
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s almost like motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances matter and not just body count. For example, intentionally targeting civilians to maximize civilian deaths is not the same as accidentally killing civilians with collateral damage while trying to minimize civilian deaths.

        • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          44
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Guess which side this is, then:

          Scores of people, mainly women and children, have been killed in multiple air strikes on the main road connecting north and south Gaza, as people carried out an Israeli order to flee their homes.

          According to the Ministry of Health, at least 70 people have been killed in three separate air strikes on the road, with the latest killing at least 40.

          The Israeli army said in a statement on Friday that civilians must leave Gaza City in the north, and that they would not be allowed to return “until we say so” and until “a statement is issued allowing this”.

          However, locals have reported a number of attacks on the Salah al-Din Road since then. Survivors, speaking to local media, implored others not to make the journey for fear of being targeted by the Israelis.

          “Do not leave,” a distraught survivor of the attacks told local media.

          “They bombed the convoy. They bombed it on Salah al-Din Road. They bombed the ambulances.”

          Another survivor said the attacks were a “direct targeting of women and children”.

          “I was in the truck. There were about 200 people. 90 percent were women and children. We took the main road that the entire world knew we were taking. My entire family were with me. Out of nowhere, they dropped a bomb. Everything was black and I lost conscience for 10 mins,” they told local media.

          “When I woke up I saw a mother lying with her baby, whose brain was right next to him. I heard the ambulances then they bombed again. I took cover and after a few minutes tried to check the damage, then they bombed again.”

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          37
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          When Israeli soldiers are bragging about raping and torturing people, it’s very clear what their intentions are

                • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  20
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  The officer, whose name remains barred from publication, served in the Defense Ministry’s Civil Administration, which is tasked with overseeing the day-to-day management of the West Bank. The officer, a major, was responsible for issuing permits for Palestinians to enter and work in Israel, a position of power that he repeatedly exploited in order to receive sexual favors from Palestinians.

                  Wow, you sure dismissed that as an isolated incident real quick!

                  I’m sure it never happened again now that they caught the only guy who got caught for doing it!

                • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  15
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Hamas is not a state or government. It is a militia to fight occupation. It is nowhere near as organized as Israel with its governing body. You cannot equate the two.

                  Israel does not oppose this. There are mountains of evidence of Israelis torturing and raping children, pregnant women and elderly Palestinians. There is mountains of evidence of Palestinians being burned alive, or forced to destroy their own homes with their bare hands. The magnitude of cruelty is unmatched.

                  Do you want more evidence? I am happy to provide. But it seems you reject it even when presented evidence.

                  • DarkGamer@kbin.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    9
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Hamas is not a state or government. It is a militia to fight occupation.

                    Incorrect. Hamas was elected as the government of Gaza in 2006 and there hasn’t been another election held since.

                    There are mountains of evidence of Israelis torturing and raping children, pregnant women and elderly Palestinians. There is mountains of evidence of Palestinians being burned alive, or forced to destroy their own homes with their bare hands. The magnitude of cruelty is unmatched.

                    Source?

                    Do you want more evidence? I am happy to provide.

                    Yes, please do.

                    But it seems you reject it even when presented evidence.

                    What evidence was I presented with that I rejected? The one article I was given (by someone else) does not prove systemic atrocities like you implied. It was an example of one criminal who was punished by Israel for his crimes.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  12
                  arrow-down
                  12
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  That’s just one of countless examples from a two seconds of googling. It’s the height of intellectual dishonesty to try and frame it as an isolated incident.

                • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  9
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  The burden of proof lies on the person making a claim. But sure, I’ll still respond. From Hamas’ official website:

                  Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

                  https://hamas.ps/en/post/678

                  • yetAnotherUser@feddit.de
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Nice quote. How about a few more?

                    Jews are a people who cannot be trusted. They have been traitors to all agreements. Go back to history. Their fate is their vanishing

                    • an imam of Hamas, 2008

                    Suffering by fire is the Jews’ destiny in this world and the next. Therefore we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come upon the Jews.

                    • another imam and Hamas legislator

                    In order to annihilate those Jews. … O Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters. O Allah, destroy the Americans and their supporters. O Allah, count them one by one, and kill them all, without leaving a single one.

                    • Speaker of the Hamas parliament, 2012

                    The Jews are behind each and every catastrophe on the face of the Earth. This is not open to debate. This is not a temporal thing, but goes back to days of yore. They concocted so many conspiracies and betrayed rulers and nations so many times that the people harbor hatred towards them. … Throughout history—from Nebuchadnezzar until modern times. … They slayed the prophets, and so on. … Any catastrophe on the face of this Earth—the Jews must be behind it.

                    • a member of the Hamas parliament, 2012

                    We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians, in order to mix their blood in their holy matzos… It happened everywhere.

                    • Hamas spokesman, 2014

                    This conference bears a clear Zionist goal, aimed at forging history by hiding the truth about the so-called Holocaust, which is an alleged and invented story with no basis. (…) The invention of these grand illusions of an alleged crime that never occurred, ignoring the millions of dead European victims of Nazism during the war, clearly reveals the racist Zionist face, which believes in the superiority of the Jewish race over the rest of the nations. (…) By these methods, the Jews in the world flout scientific methods of research whenever that research contradicts their racist interests.

                    • Hamas press release, 2000

                    The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, ‘O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’ Only the Gharkad tree would not do that, because it is one of the trees of the Jews.

                    • The former 1988 Hamas charter, but also a hadith in which islamists believe
                  • DarkGamer@kbin.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Yes the article I linked above discusses the revised charter. I see why you chose to share it rather than the original.

                    Hamas’ original charter of course was explicitly genocidal:

                    Released on August 18, 1988, the original covenant spells out clearly Hamas’s genocidal intentions. Accordingly, what happened in Israel on Saturday is completely in keeping with Hamas’s explicit aims and stated objectives. It was in fact the inchoate realization of Hamas’s true ambitions.
                    The most relevant of the document’s 36 articles can be summarized as falling within four main themes:

                    1. The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),
                    2. The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,
                    3. The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and
                    4. The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories. …

                    After some general explanatory language about Hamas’s religious foundation and noble intentions, the covenant comes to the Islamic Resistance Movement’s raison d’être: the slaughter of Jews. “The Day of Judgement will not come about,” it proclaims, “until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

                    Regarding the new one, the one you linked:

                    A Kinder, Gentler Charter?
                    On May 1, 2017, Hamas issued a revised charter. Gone were the “vague religious rhetoric and outlandish utopian pronouncements” of the earlier document, according to analysis prepared for the Institute of Palestine Studies. Instead, the new charter was redolent of “straightforward and mostly pragmatic political language” that had “shifted the movement’s positions and policies further toward the spheres of pragmatism and nationalism as opposed to dogma and Islamism.” Nonetheless, the analyst was struck by “the movement’s adherence to its founding principles” alongside newly crafted, “carefully worded” language suggesting moderation and flexibility.
                    Israel immediately dismissed the group’s effort to promote a kinder, gentler image of its once avowedly bloodthirsty agenda. “Hamas is attempting to fool the world, but it will not succeed,” a spokesperson from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office predicted.
                    In fact, the new document differs little from its predecessor. Much like the original, the new document asserts Hamas’s long-standing goal of establishing a sovereign, Islamist Palestinian state that extends, according to Article 2, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and from the Lebanese border to the Israeli city of Eilat—in other words, through the entirety of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. And it is similarly unequivocal about “the right of return” of all Palestinian refugees displaced as a result of the 1948 and 1967 wars (Article 12)—which is portrayed as “a natural right, both individual and collective,” divinely ordained and “inalienable.” That right, therefore “cannot be dispensed with by any party, whether Palestinian, Arab or international,” thus again rendering negotiations or efforts to achieve any kind of political settlement between Israel and the Palestinians irrelevant, void, or both. Article 27 forcefully reinforces this point: “There is no alternative to a fully sovereign Palestinian State on the entire national Palestinian soil, with Jerusalem as its capital.”
                    The most striking departure from the 1988 charter is that the 2017 statement of principles and objectives now claims that Hamas is not anti-Jewish but anti-Zionist and, accordingly, sees “Zionists” and not “Jews” as the preeminent enemy and target of its opprobrium. The revised document therefore modulates the blatantly anti-Semitic rhetoric of its predecessor but once again decries Zionism as central to a dark, conspiratorial plot of global dimensions.
                    For centuries, Jews have been blamed for causing the anti-Semitism directed against them. The new Hamas charter perpetuates this libel, arguing, “It is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity” and who are therefore responsible for the conflation of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.

                    It seems like Hamas revised some of the more objectionable language in the original, but they are still Hamas, and their intentions are quite clear both by word and deed.

            • XpeeN@sopuli.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Did they just downvote you for asking a source? is this reddit all over again?

        • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          while trying to minimize civilian deaths

          If that’s what they’re trying to do, they really fucking suck at it.

          And the motivation, methods, intentions, and circumstances don’t matter a bit to the victims and their loved ones.

        • jmankman
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          While they do certainly look different, the end result of a death by malice or by ignorance is the same.

    • Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Rules of the internet: you can safely discard everything that comes before the “, but”

        • matcha_addict@lemy.lolOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          The soundness of your argument should not depend on your stance. It is a common tactic to state that you are “pro-X” but criticize X, because people are more likely to sympathize with your criticism that way. The commenter you replied to is simply reminding us of this.

      • Veltoss@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        32
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        Ignoring of course the countless children they kill who aren’t part of hamas. The ratio of children to adults killed by Israel can only be reached by doing it on purpose.

        You “switching sides” because you don’t like the media reporting on these murders is a joke and I can only assume a lie, because it doesn’t make sense.

        The media reporting stuff doesn’t change what is happening nor the morals and ethics involved. Silly to blame the media for you choosing to support the murder of innocents.

          • blazera@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            23
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            1 year ago

            How convenient, when israel kills civilians its because palestine is hiding behind them, in their own country, being bombed. Its only heartless civilian massacres the other way around.

          • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            10
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            1 year ago

            Don’t try to claim moral superiority in a blood feud where both sides commit atrocities.

            • DarkGamer@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              11
              ·
              1 year ago

              As if the cartoon this thread is about wasn’t claiming moral superiority for the other side.

              • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                14
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                They are a violent resistance movement, opposing a violent colonialist movement.

                • istdaslol@feddit.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  8
                  arrow-down
                  11
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Israel is expanding into the West Bank, not Gaza. They are resisting nobody. Israel even removed all of its citizens from that area. They are terrorists. They are founded by and doing the bidding for Iran.

                  • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    8
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    If you see this as a black and white conflict, there’s no point in taking to you.