I’m old enough to remember the Reagan years. They absolutely sucked. I also voted for and was happy with Clinton. That said, in hind sight, Reagan set the house on fire, but the deregulation during the Clinton years threw a barrel of napalm into it to help it along. 1980-2000 is when we destroyed it all.
If Gore had won the presidency, things would have turned out very differently. And let’s not forget that things worked out quite well for a while under Clinton.
Same with Reagan (for some). When you rip out the brakes you get to go fast, which is great, until you need to turn or avoid a brick wall.
The positive effects of deregulation are instantaneous, which is great for the current administration. The shit hitting the fan takes its time, which is bad for later administrations.
EDIT: Gore did win. Never forget that.
Gore did win
Echos of QAnon?
When the votes cast were actually counted in Florida, Gore had more. FL was called for Bush before then, and the SCOTUS ruled 5-4 that what they initially called should stand.
None of that matters, all that matters was the final call that he lost
deleted by creator
Things only worked out well for those not paying attention. Clinton was horrible
Well, that’s because Clinton and every Democratic President since has been an Eisenhower Republican. Hilary campaigned for Barry Fuckin’ Goldwater.
The Clintons also laid the groundwork for scaling up the prison population to boost slave labour and poors suppression.
Something the republicans gladly inherited.
I’m not old enough to have voted, but I remember the last few of the Reagan years, when his dementia was just as obvious as McConnell’s or Feinsten’s.
Wilson started it, Roosevelt and Eisenhower propped it up, inadvertently or not, Nixon continued it, and Reagan paved the way for the shit we see today.
Let’s not forget to give Nixon his due, and the evil bastards that made Citizens United a law.
And Jude Wanniski, author of The Two Santa Claus Theory, which has become the backbone of Republican stupidity ever since.
Don’t get me wrong, absolutely fuck Reagan and lady Reagan (Thatcher), but to ignore the framework that preceded them and enabled them to do what they did is being wilfully ignorant and is counter productive.
Yeah, they fucked society up in their unique and terrible ways, but they are absolutely not the cause of our problems, just another symptom.
The cause is capitalism (and before that, feudalism) and the varied systemic oppression and exploitation it relies on to exist.
It is a tangible cause we can and should fight against, not a ghost to pointlessly shake a fist at for a quick dopamine hit.
Reagan and Thatcher introduced neoliberalism into their respective countries. If you were right, it would have been pointless to vote for a center left party in the next election because they wouldn’t abolish it. But when the Democrats/Labour came into power, first thing was to undo all the shit and abolish neoliberalism, right? Right?
John the Duncan made a good video about how the center left parties legitimized and normalized neoliberalism in the next legislative period. If you want me to, I can see if I find this video.
Democrats/Labour came into power, first thing was to undo all the shit and abolish neoliberalism, right? Right?
Right! If Reagan and Thatcher made neoliberalism law, then Clinton and Blair made it doctrine.
I would like to watch said video please
Give me a day or two to find it. If I forget, remind me 😉
It’s not that he did only one video on neoliberalism, it’s one of his favorite topics.
In New Zealand, neoliberalisim was introduced by the center left Labour party.
Interesting! I thought we Germany were the only ones. We had a coalition of the social Democrats together with the green party in the late 90s/ early 2000s. Especially the green party used to be very radical until they came to power
Lmfao, what the fuck do you think neoliberalism is?
And yes, it is pointless voting for the centre left, for exactly that reason - they too are neoliberal (= capitalists = exactly the point I was making in my comment).
You’re seriously not making the point you think you’re making lolI’m not making the point you think I was making. I wasn’t arguing against you. If it was all Reagan’s fault, the center left would have corrected it. But they didn’t. They turned neoliberal when they got to power. They are now but weren’t before.
neoliberal = capitalists
That’s very simplistic. 19th century capitalism wasn’t neoliberalism. The new deal era wasn’t neoliberal but socdem. Neoliberalism is the flavor of capitalism introduced by Thatcher/Reagan/… it’s not the same as capitalism.
Yeah, they fucked society up in their unique and terrible ways, but they are absolutely not the cause of our problems, just another symptom.
It may be simplistic to focus blame on some individual antagonist, but the one named is probably the one whose choices carried the greatest weight toward achieving the current condition of disaster.
At any rate, as a champion of individual responsibility, he would happily accept, no doubt, his own.
It may be simplistic to focus blame on some individual antagonist, but the one named is probably the one whose choices carried the greatest weight toward achieving the current condition of disaster.
no, but feel free to continue focusing on a symptom rather than on the problem, and
At any rate, as a champion of individual responsibility, he would happily accept, no doubt, his own.
Lmfao, absolutely never happen
feel free to continue focusing on a symptom rather than on the problem
I think you are extrapolatng, and not interpreting my response in context.
I absolutely love how you put that man.
And let’s not forget Rupert fucking Murdoch.
Rupert Murdoch wouldn’t have been a thing if Reagan hadn’t ended the fairness doctrine. Rupert Murdoch is Reagan’s fault.
Bill Clinton gave us Murdoch with his telecom act. Before Clinton, Murdoch wouldn’t have been able to own Fox News in the US because foreign nationals couldn’t own US news providers
Woah. Never knew that was illegal before. We need that law back.
or the fucking Koch brothers, or the Mercers
That’s the biggest problem with a social democracy, it just takes one bad faith actor supported by Capital owners to completely derail the system of social safety nets that were built with good faith over almost 200 years…
Good faith is a bit of a weird way to say exploitation, slavery, genocide and war in the global south
I was more referring to good faith governance (govermeny working for its citizens best interests and not corporations), not saying that social democracy aren’t fueled by those sources. But fuxk me for not writing an essay decrying every crime of social democracy’s lmao my bad.
Np you’ll get it right next time
That being said, it wasn’t good faith that gave us those safety nets, it was the working class picking up arms and demanding it.
“You’ll get it right next time” What a condescending prick lol
As if the “next time I’ll write an essay” comment wasn’t condescending. Simply matching the tone.
Class conciousness and working class Solidarity is built by poking lots of holes in the arguments of Capitalist Simps and libs by pointing out hypocrisies in the systems they support, and how every progress a social democracy has clawed for hundreds of years to get can be undone and if not undone undermined by the ruling class using their vast wealth to influence elections. Lecturing them on literally every crime of Capitalism that they have been indoctrinated in since birth is going to do nothing, but make them ignore you. Make a meme and share it if you want to address those issues you have with social democracies, just be normal and stop trying to undermine other leftists trying to spread class conciousness. You came in condescending, implying me saying the term ‘Good Faith’ was endorsing the exploitation of impoverished nations for the Imperial cores benefit. While I was trying to point out to the Imperial core how insignificant they are to the corporate overlords and the ruling class. Its a spectrum, and getting folks to recognize the Burgouis Prolitariat class divide is the first step, which is what I am trying to accomplish. I shouldnt be required to write a damn essay about every sin of social democracies every fucking time to avoid leftist like you coming in and being condescending pricks…
Gonna be real with you, I didn’t think you were making the point you were making in the first comment, that’s on me. I mistook you for a lib that is aware of the inherent injustices of the system but thinks they’re caused by bad actors in an otherwise valid system that strives for the betterment of everyone (“it’s just crony capitalism that’s bad”), while ignoring the actual harm the supposed good faith progress caused to the rest of the world and the exploited classes.
We’re on the same page, I think.
It seems that what you mean is social democracy broadly fails to meet the needs of the working class because it binds our fate to the exercise of ruling power.
This is sarcasm, right?
In which way? Downvoters don’t see your point.
I had no idea Reagan was responsible for people not knowing how to use capital letters.
Edit: Reagan was, apparently, also responsible for people misspelling Reagan. 🫣
The War on Education started with Reagan! It tracks
yeAh capItal leTters aRe liKe caPital ciTies, thEy beLong nEar tHe cenTer.
United States of America has left the chat.
You gotta wait for the capitals to trickle down
THIS BUT UNIRONICALLY
tHis buT uNironIcally
There are pretty substantial ghouls that preceded Reaganomics: chartered monopolies, anonymous transferable shares of companies (thinking Dutch East India Company here), prohibition of local currencies, central banking, labor theory of property
And that succeeded Reaganomics: Chokepoint capitalism, evergreen IP, the gig economy
Yes, in a proximate sense, specifically in the US, Reagan broke a lot of dams that were holding back the most calamitous floods that were poised to drown us… but he didn’t fill them with water in the first place.
yeah I was going to say not to forget nixon but reagan was really a turning point but so is trump now. pre/post wise I feel trump is worse but that just might be the bias of how adjacent it is currently.
The bailout system we have now, starting in 2008, is way worse than any reaganomics. Now we just hand them cash and don’t even expect it to trickle down.
Bitcoin was created in response to this, it’s even written in the first Bitcoin block ever minted “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks”. The US government printed nearly a trillion dollars to bail out the banks, governments worldwide did the same as the economic crisis unfolded. People lost their jobs, their savings, all of us had our currency devalued by the massive (but necessary) money printing to stave off a total financial collapse. And the CEOs of those failed banks had the audacity to give themselves lavish bonuses with that money. It was a massive wealth redistribution. And not a single one went to prison for it. 99% of us were forced to foot the bill for the reckless actions of a vanishingly small but ridiculously wealthy and powerful portion of the population.
And unfortunately, we have had to do this again and again because of a crucial flaw in modern banking: if banks loan out money, and everybody is all loaning to each other, there will be an economic shock that comes along that causes a bank run. When that happens in an interconnected, global economy, you can’t have a big bank fail, because all the other banks will fail too, and the entire financial system will outright collapse, just like it did during the great depression. The guy who realized this is ben bernacki, he won a nobel prize in economics for pointing out that much of the harm from the depression came not from the market panic but from the failure of the banking system and faith in it afterwards. You don’t know his name, but you would recognize his face, he is the one that sold the bailouts to congress and the world. But he does not have a solution to this problem aside from bailouts. Constant wealth distribution trickling up to those who are already the most wealthy and powerful in the system.
Satoshi saw this and knew there was a better way, so he created a new currency system in which no one person or organization could ever have the power to just turn on the money printer like that ever again. Because the temptation is just too strong. Every empire or nation that has ever failed ended with a period of hyperinflation caused by the massive increase in the money supply. Both sides in the US civil war did it, Zimbabwe did it, Nazi Germany did it, the USSR did it, Venezuela did it, the Roman Empire did it. Every country that is at war and runs out of money to fund the war does it.We need a system which does not rely on human choices being the difference between a sound money supply and a useless one. That is what Bitcoin is. It has a fixed supply. And the only person who can spend that BTC is the one with the keys: you. And it can be accessed by anybody in any country in any economic situation so long as they have a computer or phone and internet access.
Edit: Got Bernacki’s name wrong
Unfortunately, since apolitical money is not meaningful as a concept, any viable solution to ineffectual political processes must entail repairing if not reconstituting such processes within the political frame.
Gold was apolitical money for a long time. Can’t just print gold.
Gold has use value. It is and has been traded for its use value, which is the same value whether or not it is designated as currency.
The decision to designate gold as currency, or a standard for currency, is political.
Thus, gold is natural, and naturally useful, and may be designated as currency politically.
Cryptocurrency has no natural or intrinsic value, no use value.
Unlike the trade of gold, the trade of cryptocurrency depends on a belief that it is currency. Yet, it is not currency, because it has not been designated as currency politically. Once the realization is made that the necessary political process to designate it as currency will never occur, the will to trade is lost.
Satoshi saw this and knew there was a better way, so he created a new currency system in which no one person or organization could ever have the power to just turn on the money printer like that ever again. Because the temptation is just too strong.
Ethereum Classic proves this is a fantasy. There is no such thing as apolitical money. You’re trading a government who you have limited influence over for a group of programmers who you have no influence over. If something happens which hurts the programmers of your currency enough they will change the code. Just like they did with Ethereum classic.
#1. Ethereum is not designed to have a fixed supply like Bitcoin is.
#2. Bitcoin, Ethereum, or any other similar cryptocurrency can always modify the rules of its own protocol. When you do this, a “fork” is created, but if you are the only one on the fork then for all practical purposes it does not exist and you can’t do anything with it. This actually happens all the time in Bitcoin when two miners discover the “next block” at the same time and is resolved automatically when the next block after that is found and things settle. A random group of programmers can’t just change the code and make the whole network accept it. In order to make a successful fork, you must have widespread consensus. The difference is that the participants in the protocol (miners, stakers, and nodes) are the ones making that decision, not some elected or unelected politicians. This means the change has to benefit a broad base of users. Both Bitcoin and Ethereum have had many non-contentious upgrades (forks) which altered network protocol. A lead developer for Bitcoin or Ethereum could make a new version of the software, but if it is not adopted by the majority of the network it doesn’t matter and goes nowhere. There have also been some contentious forks such as Eth Classic, Bitcoin Cash, etc none of which resulted in new coins being minted on the “main chain”. The majority of users stuck on the main chain, and anybody who held BTC for example during the Bitcoin Cash fork still has that BTC, even Bitcoin cash was unable to turn on the money printer. From Bitcoin’s perspective, Bitcoin Cash or any other chain that isn’t the main chain is not Bitcoin, it may as well be Dogecoin. It’s another network running a different protocol minting different coins. You can’t spend Bitcoin Cash or Dogecoin on the Bitcoin network. Anybody who tries to fork bitcoin or ethereum faces the same problem as anybody who tries to mint their own fiat money: unless they can convince other people to accept it, it’s a useless endeavor. And people using the existing chain have every incentive to reject your fork.
#3. It was not “programmers” who did the fork which created Eth Classic. It was fairly broad consensus among all network participants, mainly people who mined Ethereum and provided the network’s security. Some of them didn’t agree with it and kept using the old code, which became Ethereum classic. It was rather contentious, but in the long run, the “main” chain of Ethereum has become inarguably the dominant one. Nobody was harmed by the split of Eth into Eth and Eth classic I fail to see what the problem is you’re pointing to.
#1. Ethereum is not designed to have a fixed supply like Bitcoin is.
Which is why Bitcoin in hyper-deflationary, which is a insane economic policy for any serious fiat currency. That policy can be changed in code by programmers just like lawmakers can change economic policy for national fiats. Bitcoin might be taken slightly more seriously as currency rather than a speculative asset if they removed the fixed supply. But that would hurt the existing wealthy stakeholders. Are you starting to see how this is still political?
The difference is that the law makers are in principle — though usually not in practice — supposed to represent the interests of everyone. There are no such lofty ideals on the chain. Whatever group controls the most wealth controls the chain. Its like our government in 2008 but with no pretense of serving everyone.
Ethereum programmers implemented a rollback on the chain in the code early on because many wealthy people close to the project lost money through an attack and needed to be bailed out… like the government did for Wall Street in 2008. The fact that its possible for the programmers to rollback the chain completely undermines the concept that crypto is decentralized in a way that meaningfully solves the problems it claims to. Wealthy players will exert their influence on crypto just like wealthy players did on the US dollar in 2008.
The fact that Ethereum Classic still exists demonstrates that there was not a consensus with the rollback — there was discontent with the rollback — just like people were discontent with the bailouts in 2008.
Which is why Bitcoin in hyper-deflationary, which is a insane economic policy for any serious fiat currency
Most modern economists would agree with you. There is no correct answer here, it’s mainly a matter of perspective and what you value. I would say it’s mildly deflationary, the supply is fixed, it’s not like 10% of the supply is burned every year or anything. We used to have the gold standard, that was essentially based on a fixed supply, the world didn’t collapse, it was fine. We moved away from it for good reasons although if you asked the other countries who participated in that system about how the US went about making that transition it was of course quite contentious at the time. They trusted their national currencies to be pegged to the dollar which was pegged to gold until one day the US just said “Hey jk not anymore good luck”. I’m not going to get into the weeds arguing inflationary/deflationary economics with you I was mainly just trying to correct what seems to be your misunderstanding about how Bitcoin and Eth actually work when it comes to forks etc.
Are you starting to see how this is still political?
I’m not making the argument that economic systems are divorced from politics or don’t have political or social implications. They obviously do.
That policy can be changed in code by programmers just like lawmakers can change economic policy for national fiats.
Sorry but you’re just wrong about the rollback and how that works. The only reason the rollback worked is because the majority of the ethereum network nodes and miners agreed it was needed. Releasing code in an of itself does nothing, you need network consensus for it to work. If legislators write a law, that changes the fiscal policy immediately. If the Eth programmers write a protocol change into the code nothing happens until there is widespread enough consensus for the network to upgrade to that new code and fork. They have to convince the entire network to download and run that new code. This would be equivalent to having to get the entire country to vote on a new fiscal policy every time congress or the federal reserve proposed changes to it. It is wildly more democratic.
Whatever group controls the most wealth controls the chain
A. Pretty much how our existing economy works. B. Nodes and miners control the chain (or in Eth’s case nodes, validators, and the people who stake their coins to those validators which is literally everyone who has Eth can do). They can directly vote on proposed rule changes unlike in a representative democracy where they elect people who can change those rules and in most cases the only recourse if they make bad rules is to elect somebody different next time. In Bitcoin or Ethereum you need widespread consensus among those who use the network to effect protocol changes. There have been many proposals to change Bitcoin’s core protocol over the years, most of them did not succeed as they required widespread consensus which is hard to get and takes significant time. So it produces a very stable protocol (and fiscal policy) which tends to be backwards compatible.
I would say it’s mildly deflationary, the supply is fixed, it’s not like 10% of the supply is burned every year or anything.
This is like saying tulip mania was mildly deflationary. At a certain point without changing the rules of the blockchain there will never be another Bitcoin made. That is somehow supposed to represent an ever growing economy forever?… And not be hyper-deflationary? Remember… they were still making more tulips.
As long as Bitcoin remains this deflationary it will be a terrible store of value and a terrible facilitator of trade. In other words a terrible currency. And the people in charge of bitcoin — that is the people who own stakes in the network — will never want to end that because they make too much money with it being deflationary. It would be funny if some people didn’t loose a ton of money in the process.
I’m not making the argument that economic systems are divorced from politics or don’t have political or social implications. They obviously do.
If its not divorced from politics then what’s to stop the same or similar political situation that happened in 2008 from happening again?
Remember the thing I disagreed with was…
Satoshi saw this and knew there was a better way, so he created a new currency system in which no one person or organization could ever have the power to just turn on the money printer like that ever again. Because the temptation is just too strong.
If the rules can be changed by someone then what’s to stop whoever that someone is from turning on the money printers on for the wealthy under the right political circumstances?
Sorry but you’re just wrong about the rollback and how that works. The only reason the rollback worked is because the majority of the Ethereum network nodes and miners agreed it was needed.
I understand how it works. I used to mine Ethereum and I’ve run both a Bitcoin and Ethereum nodes. I’ve been following Bitcoin since I saw it on slashdot in 2009.
Of course they “agreed” to give themselves a bailout. That’s no more valid of an argument than saying the US agreed to the bailouts in 2008. Other’s disagreed that’s why we still have the fork.
Randomly forking is terrible for a currency. I don’t want to wake up tomorrow and find out that my money is worth half as much because some rich assholes didn’t like some transactions. And because they own enough nodes/ASICs/GPUs/stake and are friends with the programmers on the project they can just fork me over.
They can directly vote on proposed rule changes unlike in a representative democracy where they elect people who can change those rules and in most cases the only recourse if they make bad rules is to elect somebody different next time.
Most representative democracies have direct ballot initiatives and they’re based on 1 person 1 vote. We should work to have more of that because a broad base of people generally have interests different than those with access to wealth.
In the case of crypto none that I know of base their “democracy” on a system of 1 person 1 vote but instead on how much ownership you have on the network in terms of nodes/Mines(GPU, ASICs, etc.)/stake. This is not democracy, this is a system of political power based on ownership. In other words the same system of influence at the root of the 2008 bailouts.
There have been many proposals to change Bitcoin’s core protocol over the years, most of them did not succeed as they required widespread consensus which is hard to get and takes significant time.
Yes, the people who own stakes in the blockchain are going to make very conservative decisions that protect their own wealth. The US congress chose to turn the money printer on in 2008 because that was the best way to protect their wealth and the wealth of their donors. Again… its same system of influence based on wealth and ownership that lead to the 2008 bailouts.
Ben Bernanke.
tom bernacki
gaah fuck yes ben my bad I will edit
I’m partial to blaming European colonialism myself.
I blame the wrong side winning at Thermopylae.
Ronald Reagan is proof that most actors should not become politicians.
You get too good at pretending to be somebody you’re not when it is your actual day job.
Have you caught yourself doing that?
Does anyone have any book/article recommendations if I’m unfamiliar with this topic, but may want to start down this rabbit hole?
More than emphasizing the figure of Reagan, I suggest learning about neoliberalism overall, and its emergence as the global order.
Frankly, Reagan was just a simpleton in a suit, by my estimation.
Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman are the more relevant figures historically.
I’m not familiar with books on Reagan but if you want a great book on how the right wing billionaires manipulate things with money I suggest Dark Money by Jane Meyer. It’s in the same vein and dark money is a highly interesting topic.
And left wing billionaries don’t manipulate, they are good guys?
Start with The Shock Doctrine from Naomi Klein
The best thing he did was marry the Throat GOAT.
That absolutely slays me.
If it wasn’t Reagan it was Biden
