I step out for a short bender and come back to this. I hate it when you fight! I’m going to live with grandma this summer!
LW is kinda ass though. What have I done.
Based on their writing style in their recent long post about the change, they’re immature children at best. 6? People wrote it together and it’s a disjointed mess.
PTB.
I have no idea which ideological problems people are talking about. I do know however that users are not cattle - you can ask them to migrate to another comm, you can lock a community down, but you cannot herd them to the comm that you want by saying “go there”. And trying to prevent users from going to whatever comm they want is a big arsehole move.
Even the removal reply is power-tripping (and dumb/disingenuous/shitty). “Not relevant”? Goddammit this is a 196 community, there’s no such thing as “not relevant”! Who are they trying to fool with that toilet entry?
No idea, but [email protected] is thriving
I don’t follow that community but one theory seems to be that ultimately it might have been dragon fucker that broke it all apart - https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/15732326.
Though the actions and words of the mods themselves tell the entire story all on its own really - they “own” the community, there is no need for a poll, they did not appreciate Ada’s “help” despite all the hardships they caused her by failing to attend to the modlog in a timely fashion (which due to its lack of filters is a legitimate hardship upon her), and basically they want the power that any instance admin (like spez) has, yet are completely unwilling to take any of the responsibilities that would come with it.
Oh well, the new community at [email protected] seems to be moving along supremely well without those mods already…
The comment that you linked hints that the mod was already considering the migration for quite a while; so if the dragon rider event had any role, it was like a drop of water in the ocean.
If I had to take a guess it’s all about the admins keeping a closer control over the community than the mod in question wants to see. So far, so good, if she wants to mod a LW comm instead it’s her own decision, but then relinquish control to the people who were clearly against the move.
That is an astute observation. Though I got from it more that it was the last straw that broke the camel’s back - like it was relevant, and may have been the thing that actually prompted the move, but it was neither necessary nor sufficient on its own, yet was still the thing that may have caused it. Like a fight within a couple that caused a divorce, though not existing without the context surrounding it, and still the breakup would have happened anyway just at a later date.
The real reason seems to be that the mods looked at what spez said and did and said “nice, when can I do that as well?” Given that… it’s only natural to never be satisfied no matter how much free stuff is thrown in one’s direction, always more must be sought, demanded, and even fought over. Perhaps it’s not enough to win and rather others must lose? Okay then, so they have “won”, and people have already moved on.
The reason why I don’t think that Dragon Rider is too relevant (not even as a last straw) is that, even if Moss strongly disagrees with how the admins handled that user, Blåhaj is still way more protected against trolls than Lemmy World would ever be. So it wouldn’t make sense to move the comm to LW.
Unless the issue is not how the admins handled it, but the fact that they handled it at all? LW has worse protection against trolls, but it gives the mods more control over their comms. That would fit well what you said in the second paragraph, and explain why drag was mentioned at all.
You ended up being right - well perhaps both of us actually but more you. The Drag scenario was mentioned as being specifically not a primary cause, though I still think it looks to be more like salt having been rubbed into an existing wound, so adding emotional force to a preexisting impetus.
And the details are more sparse but indeed the preexisting decision by LBZ to allow LGBTQIA+ tankies from lemmy.ml loomed heavy in the background without much being said about it directly (edit: the source for that thought is the comments in the related posts, not that I know anything about that directly). Though the promises by LW admins - despite that flying HEAVILY in the face of their recent announcement - seemed to have an enormous role.
I am speaking of this latest post by the mods: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20976989.
From what I can gather from what little they want to share it’s very clear to me that they wanted to move to world to attract a larger audience and also so certain transphobic users could participate again. They also repeatedly claim that the community is the moderators rather than the users, which just makes it clear how out of touch they are.
Edit: Also, it’s super obvious the reason they don’t want to give over the old community is so people are “forced” to move to their new world community. They only care about number go up.
Well, technically they aren’t wrong.
Anyway, people are really enjoying the new 196 community. By which I mean the [email protected] community that is growing by leaps and bounds every hour. In the last 3-4 hours there have been 80 posts, 900 users, 360 subscribers… by comparison, in [email protected] I see just 4 posts, one of which is the new set of regulations threatening people to be banned even before they read any existing posts (bc it’s pinned above them I mean).
There is really no comparison here.
Literally telling on herself that she’s inactive for weeks to months at a time. But yeah, definitely Ada’s fault for trying to actually moderate the largest comm on the instance. I think both sides here are at fault though, as I’ve seen (and been disappointed by) the way Ada moderates the matrix space she runs.
Tbf, Moss is only one mod among many (I count 10 in the sidebar) - the more damning portion is how it seems NONE of the mods were checking the modlog reports and resolving them.
Also, I don’t know the history of the [email protected] community but from what some comments said, at some point the community moved to lemmy.blahaj.zone and then had no mods, thus belonging entirely to Ada as the “owner”? And Ada,.as she said, has just been doing her thing since before 196 existed even on Reddit. It’s not her fault for simply living her authentic life - and rather sounds like the fault of whoever wanted to move the community from lemmy.world to Blåhaj (before abandoning it entirely into Ada’s hands to clean up the mess left behind).
This entire situation seems so fucked up from every side. The mods have responsibilities to both the admin as well as the users of the community. They ignored major parts to both of those, tried to move, failed, and now continue to step ever deeper into it with the more they reveal about their “internal voting” and such the worse that the community feels about it all.
It’s good to have choices though: if the new mods want to create a different space on Lemmy.World, that’s awesome? But they absolutely screwed up the communication about that.:-P
To be fair that post was in the old 196 as well. It’s a rules explanation thingy.
Yeah but the new one here by Moss has an oldest comment of 1 day ago, I guess they made that before the announcement 14 hours ago. So it seems to have replaced the old one.
But yeah you get me: it’s not a “real” post about “rules” - except it is, but it is not a “really real” post about “Rules”, you feel me? :-P
Seems the community is heading to [email protected] instead, looks a lot more active
Thanks
That’s deffo a PTB
They’re on a streak
Not relevant… On 196.
Or course - don’t you know that you are landed gentry, subject to the whims of a king!? 🤪
Because the mod they share locked it to force a move to the lemmy.world one: https://kbin.melroy.org/m/[email protected]/t/676055/WE-ARE-MOVING-TO-LEMMY-WORLD
But this is a prime example that mods are not their community, which is why I believe users should be able to choose their preferred or alternate moderators when participating in a community.
I beg to differ: that is not the prime example that mods are not their community, this is: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20968775 -> the new [email protected] that somebody requested and Ada already allowed and gave the shortcut name 196 to already has 80 posts, 900 users and 360 subscribers despite being ~3 hours old and most people haven’t even heard the drama yet but this has already solved it!:-P
Yeah, that’s a power trip, strange to be posturing as anti-authoritarian but then unilaterally making decisions like that.
Not Relevant, I can’t believe it. How is that proper Moderation? That PTB didn’t realize that the community they was the self-proclaimed head-honcho would dislike this shit move. By locking the original community they cemented their position as shittiest mod of all time.
I just don’t get why they don’t unlock it.
how can they still be in power when the original exist. That’s my guess why they don’t want to unlock it.
That’s just pure power tripping.
[email protected] tried that back in the days locking [email protected] to channel all users to their community.
Needless to say, the uproar was huge.
Bc Ada does not want to be accused of being a PTB. However, if someone were to wait a couple of weeks, then make a poll asking the members of the community what they wanted, then perhaps she would acquiesce to the owners’ (note the plural, I mean the community MEMBERS) desires?
There’s another matter too.
Saying anything remotely iffy with a lemmygrad, threads, or hexbear account.
Last time that I checked this crap, I was busy criticising Hexbear, because HB was clearly trying to boss Blåhaj around on how it should manage its own instance.
However, both sides are in the wrong here, and Moss isn’t exactly blameless - why are they enforcing rules differently for users based on instance? Handling other instances is up to the admins, not community mods.
(The same applies to Threads.)
This was indeed wrong, I restored the post and asked the mod who removed it for an explanation
Thanks, I guess?
I have been doing calculus the entire day nonstop in preparation to fail my tomorrow’s test and my brain is totally fried. I came back to see a completely new sub dominating the top and I can’t parse what and why has happened. Can somebody please briefly explain using very small words?
Mods of [email protected] unilaterally decided to lock it and wanted them force everyone to move to [email protected]
Vast majority of the members were unhappy with the decision and started [email protected] 6 hours ago. 1180 active users, 124 posts.
Why did they want to move it?
They didn’t want to moderate and got upset when Ada actually enforced instance rules/dealt with reports that came in
Thank you very much!
Can’t say I’m not glad this happened. 196 was the only community I was banned from (permanently) and thus couldn’t vote or comment on good chunk of top posts.
@[email protected] One unfortunate side effect of this appears that transphobes previously banned have now been unbanned in both of the new comms
spoiler
Nice of this one to tell on themselves though!
That’s unfortunate indeed, feel free to report them, mods should be able to act swiftly
done 🫡
Thank you! 🙏
https://lemmy.world/post/24479762?scrollToComments=true
Sorry it took so long, but we’ve addressed everything in a pinned post
Everything, except the resolution of the whole matter, as you need a vote?
Only like 3 of us are awake right now. So yes, the vote will take time.
For the record, I’m voting yes, unlock it. Tbh I didn’t even think it should’ve been a vote, but the opinions were mixed, so…As I’m typing this, we got somewhat of a greenlight to unlock it in spite of the tied vote. So…there lol.
As I’m typing this, we got somewhat of a greenlight to unlock it in spite of the tied vote. So…there lol.
Good news!
Can someone give me a rundown of what happened? I don’t understand and I would like some context, please.
Long-term disagreements between the mods of 196 and the admin of Blahaj led to the mods of 196, with the admin’s permission, moving to .world instead and locking the previous community with a redirect. The mods of 196 did not consult the community before the move, and many of them feel miffed at this.
I guess now I have questions about what those disagreements were and why any one mod could lock the community and force the move?
Also, if the moderation team didn’t agree with admins from Blahaj, what does .world give them that Blahaj didn’t? Seems like trolls aren’t being curved on .world and it’s not as inclusive.
Why are so many instances avoiding Blahaj? What happened there?
Also, I guess I don’t understand a lot about the dynamics of the community. But it seems like users are pissed because there was a bait and switch and the mods responsible have doubled down and or just don’t want to be involved in advocating for the community they moderate for?
Edit: So, what I gather from the responses to my question is that Ada is an Admin at the Blahaj Zone instance, and the 196 moderation team were not moderating their community except sparingly. Ada tried to open a line of communication to get them to check on and moderate the community more often, or to pursue adding more mods. Neither request seems to have been taken into consideration.
Somewhere along the line this meant that Ada (and possibly other Admins from Blahaj Zone were doing the moderation job, and a conflict arose when people who had received bans contacted the moderation team directly and they reviewed what they had missed.
They then talked amongst themselves and perhaps came to the conclusion that they didn’t want to keep the community on BZ. And alluded to such a thing on posts before making the whole thing read only/locking it, and moving over to .world.
The community naturally revolted because they weren’t largely involved in the decision. And now some users are completely disenfranchised because their instances aren’t federated with .world.
But it can’t all be undone (for technical reasons I don’t fully understand).
I guess now I have questions about what those do agreements were and why any one mod could lock the community and force the move?
The mod team of 196 as a whole agreed, not just one.
Also, if the moderation team didn’t agree with admins from Blahaj, what does .world give them that Blahaj didn’t? Seems like trolls aren’t being curved on .world and it’s not as inclusive.
Blahaj admins have a history of banning and removing comments in 196 for concerning reasons.
Why are so many instances avoiding Blahaj? What happened there?
Can’t speak as to that. I’m not sure what instances are defederated with Blahaj or why.
Also, I guess I don’t understand a lot about the dynamics of the community. But it seems like users are pissed because there was a bait and switch and the mods responsible have doubled down and or just don’t want to be involved in advocating for the community they moderate for?
The mods want to move the community, as a whole, to .world instead of splitting it in two; part of this attempt was in locking the original 196 on Blahaj. That’s where a lot of the anger is coming from.
I’m an outsider, and I’m not trans, and I’m on painkillers because I have a dry socket so I’m too stupid to avoid this discussion, but I’ve seen this screenshot a couple of times now and I haven’t seen anyone saying that it was like… a horrible injustice, who identifies as trans?
Or are there other admin abuses besides this? Because I just keep seeing this one screenshot?
I am trans, and fairly active on 196 and if all of these comments occurred on 196? Yeah, both users had it coming, even if I generally get along with both users in other contexts. On serious discussion communities I think there needs to be space for discussion and education. On 196, Spronkus shoulda told you, trans rights and shoot fascists. Or that’s my opinion, this whole issue is about which moderation philosophy should be applied to 196.
Then I’m of the opinion that this whole moving thing is so they could let in their friends who were rightfully banned.
Thank you. That helps a lot. It answers some of my additional questions.
No offense, but I read through that and I still feel like I missed a lot. I have an example of sort of what happened but none of the history to understand it.
lol
