Recently I posted a pretty harmless meme in my DSA chapter’s Discord (see image). It was in response to South Korea’s recent spate of Fascism.

In response I had comrades jump down my throat, attacking me for critical support of AES states like DPRK and China. According to these comrades “there is no real Socialist nation.”

As tempting as it is to quit DSA I think I should stay and try to educate.

Comrades also jumped on me for a comment I made months ago in response to some right wing BS where I said “maybe Democracy isn’t always a great idea”. The point I was trying to make was that Trans rights and other basic freedoms should never be put up to a popularity contest… I’m ok with a state that defends these rights and doesn’t allow a reactionary majority to vote them away!

During this thread, people brought up multiple times that DPRK isn’t Democratic because the Kim’s have always been the figurehead, China isn’t Democratic because “reasons” (racism), China lies about their suicide rates to WHO, etc.

Frustrating. I’ll post more details in the comments.

My question: What constitutes a “real” Democracy? Is it leadership changing hands every few years? We don’t have that in the U.S. Is it secret ballots? All the nationa above have that. Is it that the people’s votes and voices actually change the government actions? We saw this in China unfortunately when people demanded ending the COVID lock downs early. It was the wrong thing to do but done for the right reason.

And is there any hope for these people in my chapter? One of them was basically racist against Chinese people and they seem very set in this “not real Socialism” mindset.

  • MayoPete [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
    17·
    20 days ago

    I’m sorry today’s China isn’t meeting the personal standards of a 100% Socialist utopia. It has to exist in a global Capitalist framework to survive. It shows one of the two ways to thrive in such a global environment, DRPK shows the other.

    I want increased quality of life, lower suicide rates, homelessness and extreme poverty virtually eradicated, etc. I also want to live somewhere that Billionaires, if they have to exist, are not above the law. China’s on the right path!

    https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/

    Another person butted in at this point and strongly suggested China lies about their statistics. It can’t be China doing better, no they’re just good at lying 👀

    I’m getting upset again. With “comrades” like these who needs enemies?

    • MayoPete [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      20·
      20 days ago

      Why China is lying according to these shitheads:

      China has a much greater capacity to manipulate data thanks to the state’s totalitarian control over all aspects of society

      Dammit I’m getting mad at this thread all over again.

    • MayoPete [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      18·
      20 days ago

      Shot:

      I’m just a realist. You can’t go from 0 to Socialist overnight. It’s a long, gradual project that lasts generations. China owns so much of industry, had drastically improved life for the 1 billion+ people that live there, and do all this by being MORE democratic than us!

      If you expect perfection, that’s not realistic

      Chaser:

      I dont think you are. The realistic position is to accept that a capitalist economy is ruled by a capitalist state.

      I think you’re an idealist

      I’m sorry, which “perfect” Socialist state is still around? None of them? So tell me again who is the idealist?

      • carpoftruth [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        12·
        20 days ago

        If they’re just being argumentative shit heads it’s not worth blowing your time arguing with them. Unless you are sure others are watching and learning, you’re just wrestling with a pig in shit (except pigs are smart and worthy of love vegan-liberation-rad ).

        If they’re just blowing off your commentary, blow theirs off too. Taking these idiots seriously is a waste of time.

        “cool how you, a devoted ML (or whatever flavour of leftist they identify as) , share all the same opinions as the state department”. Just talk past them and speak directly to whoever you think is more receptive. Ignoring these wrecker types also drives them up the wall, making it more likely that they do insane unhinged posts.

    • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      12·
      20 days ago

      Yeah I have been considering joining my local DSA (they have begged me to join for years because of how effective I am rhetorically with general strangers) but shit like this puts me off.

      My resolve however is unshakeable and I feel I could do well to agitate within this specific chapter.

      Recently a customer where I work even told me everyone at some party they were at knew about me lol.