I have no idea how anybody thought Ukraine could win anything, seriously.
I wasn’t on this site when this stuff started, but I was telling people this wasn’t what the media was saying, the western posturing looked like they wanted another Afghanistan and were completely willing to make Ukraine into that. That was correct.
I also knew militarily the nuclear powers would only engage in a limited manner, and therefore strategically ukraine had nowhere to go.
The winning move was to sue for peace immediately and avert as much devastation as possible. Setting aside the moral highground or justifications of any actor in this cluster, that was also correct. Objectively. There was never going to be a dliberate crossing of the rubicon with nukes over fucking Kiev, for all the bluster and posturing, there’s nothing in Ukraine worth that blood spilled either way.
The only options were, capitulate immediately, or sell the nation out as a prostitute and turn it into a Russian meat grinder for a while, until the strategic inevitabilities came to fruition, which was always just gonna be russia going as far as they want to.
I’ve read so much cope and ignorance over the years. I’m super gay, super trans, really just a big homo queer lady - i don’t have any love for modern day Russia for any reason - their mandate was lost in 1992 - but this was never going to be anything but what it is now, a protracted, brutal, dehumanizing loss.
Russia is doing gangbusters with their economy being revitalized by Western sanctions, culturally they’re becoming more anti-West because they see that the average Joe is a blood-addled dullard and the world is closer to all-out war than it has in decades
I have no idea how anybody thought Ukraine could win anything, seriously.
The goal was never to win. It was simply to bleed an enemy via a proxy war. Operation Cyclone 2.
The winning move was to sue for peace immediately and avert as much devastation as possible
Debatable. After Georgia and Crimea, I’m not sure what the winning move was supposed to be shy of direct confrontation by NATO.
But when the game is to destabilize, eviscerate, and enslave whole nation states - and your regional arch rival has decided to Uno-Reverse-y your Neoliberal strategy - maybe the winning move is to stop playing this shitty, awful game.
there’s nothing in Ukraine worth that blood spilled either way
There’s trillions worth of natural resources. Russia have all those and more so they were pretty indifferent but west is salivating about it. And unless Russia is gonna annex entire Ukraine (which would frankly be least bad outcome for Ukrainian working class but is very unlikely), porkys will still get it for firesale prices or entirely for free as Ukraine is getting sold to US private sector in exchange for US tax money.
I have no idea how anybody thought Ukraine could win anything, seriously.
I wasn’t on this site when this stuff started, but I was telling people this wasn’t what the media was saying, the western posturing looked like they wanted another Afghanistan and were completely willing to make Ukraine into that. That was correct.
I also knew militarily the nuclear powers would only engage in a limited manner, and therefore strategically ukraine had nowhere to go.
The winning move was to sue for peace immediately and avert as much devastation as possible. Setting aside the moral highground or justifications of any actor in this cluster, that was also correct. Objectively. There was never going to be a dliberate crossing of the rubicon with nukes over fucking Kiev, for all the bluster and posturing, there’s nothing in Ukraine worth that blood spilled either way.
The only options were, capitulate immediately, or sell the nation out as a prostitute and turn it into a Russian meat grinder for a while, until the strategic inevitabilities came to fruition, which was always just gonna be russia going as far as they want to.
I’ve read so much cope and ignorance over the years. I’m super gay, super trans, really just a big homo queer lady - i don’t have any love for modern day Russia for any reason - their mandate was lost in 1992 - but this was never going to be anything but what it is now, a protracted, brutal, dehumanizing loss.
Yeah, a lot of life lost and for what?
Russia is doing gangbusters with their economy being revitalized by Western sanctions, culturally they’re becoming more anti-West because they see that the average Joe is a blood-addled dullard and the world is closer to all-out war than it has in decades
The goal was never to win. It was simply to bleed an enemy via a proxy war. Operation Cyclone 2.
Debatable. After Georgia and Crimea, I’m not sure what the winning move was supposed to be shy of direct confrontation by NATO.
But when the game is to destabilize, eviscerate, and enslave whole nation states - and your regional arch rival has decided to Uno-Reverse-y your Neoliberal strategy - maybe the winning move is to stop playing this shitty, awful game.
There’s trillions worth of natural resources. Russia have all those and more so they were pretty indifferent but west is salivating about it. And unless Russia is gonna annex entire Ukraine (which would frankly be least bad outcome for Ukrainian working class but is very unlikely), porkys will still get it for firesale prices or entirely for free as Ukraine is getting sold to US private sector in exchange for US tax money.