Trying to de-google and looking for an alternative to Gmail.
Don’t mind if it’s a paid service if it’s robust.
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Proton Mail and Tutanota are great free options.
Tutanota has limited features and i dont like the UI. But it is okay.
Try to go for protonmail
I just opened my protonmail account for the first time in years and it’s really nice! Lots of great UI stuff now!
Tutanota is a bit more privacy focused, really useful for burners, because by default it will burn the account if you don’t use it for 6 months.
As far the UI, I kinda like it. Little more old school, doesn’t have the toy look so many apps have nowadays. But to each their own.
Protonmails approach to requiring hCaptcha for everything, even their mobile apps, really turns me off. I can’t complete them. And I need another email to get in using their weird and creepy accessibility cookie thing. Nah thanks. If I need a second email to access my email I might as well just use that second email.
You sure you are a human?
Barely!
Who the hell downvotes a person for saying “I have a hard time with Captchas because they don’t provide accessibility options that allow entry to someone with my conditions” ?
Like, guys, Captchas being ableist is a well known thing. And they’ve only been getting worse, as they’ve been in an arms race with AI, trying to become more and more distorted, and most AI text recognition software is already better at Captchas than most dyslexic people.
Last I checked, the encryption in Proton Mail means you have to use their app, no third party apps allowed. Is that still true?
Yes, that’s still true. If you want to be able to use a third-party mail app, I would look at Fastmail or Mailbox.org. They don’t have free plans though.
Phone app? Yes you have to use their own app. On a computer besides the browser version you can use Thunderbird and other applications if you download ProtonBridge.
To clarify, this is a paid feature and not included with the free tier
Is that GitHub issue where the bridge just starts deleting emails still open? I am pretty sure it was open for over a year.
Yup, and it’s kind if a pain since their mobile apps aren’t great. I’ve been using them for many years, and lately have been considering jumping ship.
Email encryption isn’t something I actually care about. If I wanted to send someone a super private message, I probably wouldn’t use email anyways since it’s just clunky, and it’s unlikely the other person is using proton mail too (which means the message wouldn’t be encrypted anyways). All I really want is to not have my email provider be scanning my messages to profit from my data.
But the effort to switch to something else is making me stay…
You don’t use encrypted emails only to communicate privately. If they are not encrypted, your e-mail provider will probably scan them, whether it is for profit or under request from the NSA. That’s what Snowden uncovered.
That’s a good point, but also the more I think about it the more I realize it’s futile. Google is 100% going to scan the messages I send to gmail users, and match it to me somehow.
With Tutanota the Gmail user only gets a link (optionally password protected). Google can’t scan the actual content of the mail.
Same with Proton if you enable encryption for emails to non-proton addresses
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Same here. It’s pretty barebones but fully functional.
Just off the top of my head: on iOS, the app is frequently slow to download new messages, occasionally (but not frequently) crashes or freezes up, opening a message from a notification is unreliable, it doesn’t support landscape mode, the search feature sucks (no filtering, sorting, etc), and it has some questionable design choices. Like, why does it include spam in the “All Mail” category? And why is it that swiping a message right sends it to the trash when doing that exact same interaction in the iOS mail app marks it as read? I’ve adapted to the difference after all these years, but it’s clearly a bad design.
Overall it’s not terrible; I’d give it like 4/5 or 3.5/5 stars, however with the price I’m paying for this (IMO overpriced) service I’d expect something a little better. I will say that the experience today is much better than it was a year ago, so even though it takes a long time, it does seem to be improving.
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I’ve had zero issues with the mobile app for mail.
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I’ll be honest, when it comes to online purchases you may find that a protonmail email will require extra processing/fraud checking due to the amount of fraudsters that use it. Combine that with a vpn and it will just be a pain here and there with online purchases like additional ID verification/delayed orders etc…
Been using protonmail for my main email for three years, never had one issue. But I’m in Europe, maybe in the US it’s different?
I’m more talking global purchases. Just the email will probs be ok but if you purchase using that email and a vpn it raises flags.
This has happened exactly once to me, and it was the VPN, and not the email address.
Paid plan folks can also make use of simplelogin.io
I am always suspicious of free. How do they make money? Have to pay for things in life, and I’ve learned that you are either the customer, or the product. If your the customer, pay up. If your the product, your data is being dished out to somebody OR ad-a-palooza. If the free option is just ads, I can live. If every time I log on I feel like I am getting a vitual colonoscopy, pass.
Proton is freemium. You can use the basic package but you only get 500 MB drive storage. Expanding that is cheap, which is how they draw you in.
They also offer package deals, like their VPN stuff.
The Proton free tier is pretty limited compared to Gmail, in particular for me, you’re only allowed 1 label. The basic paid tier opens up a lot more. They definitely want you to upgrade to the paid tier.
How do they make money?
Buy selling a subscription that comes with more perks. For example, more storage for your email, custom email domain, etc.
Pre-paying for 2 years upfront is the most cost effective.
Your doubts are warranted, but with Protonmail and Tutanota there is no reason be suspicious. They are basically feemium products and their goal is to respect user’s rights
Proton Mail just has 5 gigs for the free version. Doesn’t seem like it’s enough for me to switch to it long term.
They also expand your storage every year, so it’s not like it’s stuck there forever. For reference, I’ve been on Proton for about 3 years now (paid plan) and I have a data storage cap of 540GB and I’ve never had to buy more. Also, I all my emails so far only consume 340MB - so even on the free plan I’d still have years to go before I reached even 5GB.
(Also, I’ll admit I don’t email much.)
Try proton mail. I love it
Yeah, Proton are working on delivering a privacy-focused replacement for the whole google suite. Mail, drive, calendar so far, plus VPN. OP could do a lot worse. :)
Yeah I’ll go Proton. Was going to go with Fastmail but then read that they’re an Australian company, a Five Eyes country.
It’s quite expensive whereas you get the same product even better for 12€ a year with posteo.de
Posteo doesn’t allow you to use your own domain, do they? I know OP didn’t ask for that but it’s a really, really good idea to put your email addresses on a domain that you own.
Still, it would be a definite step up from Google.
Proton imo is definitely the winner here, since Gmail itself also relies on integration with a bunch of cloud apps
I’m using ProtonMail and paying for it.
It’s decent. The best AFAIK in terms of privacy. Supports labels etc.
The migration process takes so long, I’m split between both still and slowly moving over.
I just forward my Gmail and use it as a legacy service while using proton as my new primary. Allows me to very aggressively spam filter in proton.
That’s what I do too, and any thing that I sign up for or use often I’ve swapped straight to proton
I’m willing to use that mindset when I’m downhill mountain biking but for email… no way. You’re crazy man.
I kinda get you, but I’m (not oc) using forwarding as a temporary solution until I’ve slowly moved everything away from Gmail entirely. It’s also good to import all past mails over.
Same. I use my gmail accounts for junk mail and have been moving everything actually relevant to proton through SimpleLogin aliases.
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I use Proton Mail. I recommend that whatever service you decide on, get your own domain name so you can keep your email address if you move to a different provider.
Do you have any recommendations on how to buy a domain?
Not OP, but I used Namecheap. Porkbun is also recommended I think. Setting it up is not dead-brain simple, but Proton does a very good job on explaining it step by step I believe.
IIRC Cloudflare is the only registrar that doesn’t mark up from wholesale prices, or something like that. Basically makes them cheaper than most other registrars. I think the point is that they can then sell you their other (related) services more easily — the services that actually make them money.
I use Porkbun for my domain. you can get a .xyz domain for only $2 for 1 year, though after 1 year its like $8 per year.
I’m using namesilo and it was pretty straight forward to set up. I just got it a couple days ago and no issues so far!
That would make it easier to target you though, or do you use aliases on top of that?
I’m not sure I know what you mean by “target you”. Can you go into more detail about that?
By having a common email address that you give out to each service you sign up on you make it easier for them to aggregate the data and build a more detailed profile on you, in order to avoid it you would use email aliases (dummy address that serve the purpose of only forwarding emails they receive from and to one of your real address). If you use a custom domain name you can potentially create an infinite amount of them, but you expose yourself to being tracked anyway because they would all have the domain name in common e.g.
a@mydomain.me,b@mydomain.me, etc. and they would notice that it all comes from one user for service, so it’s easy to guess it is actually just one real person.
To avoid that happening, you would have to use a public aliasing service so you can blend in with the other usersAny decent email hosting service should allow you some form of aliasing (whether it’s plus addressing or actual aliases). Ideally there should be no “default” address associated @your.domain, it should be all aliases. Preferably with wildcards so you can make them up on the fly when subscribing to a random website, without having to go into the admin settings. And naturally they should also offer wildcard sending (being able to send from [email protected] – this is supported by most decent email clients).
Bottom line, as long as it’s your own domain and you don’t abuse things like receiving/sending limits, attachment size, total storage size etc. you should be able to do whatever you want with your addresses and mailboxes.
I’m using Proton Mail and I like it a lot!
Idk I’m still using my Hotmail that I got in 1995 so…
I’m still using an AOL email address that I got in the 80’s, so…
Damn you just reminded me that I haven’t fed my Neopet in years. They don’t die, do they??
I thought I was cool because I recorded the ring from my flip phone and used it on every subsequent phone until I somehow lost the recording around the late aughts, but that beats me by miles.
Oh yeah?? Well I tattoo my messages onto my servant’s scalps and send them out when their hair has grown, so…
My hotmail account is my oldest still in use online account.
Me too! Pretty close to moving to proton though. Might wait for Black Friday rates.
What made you adamant on getting proton? Curious, cause I could mention some cheaper, but very competent email services.
oh I wouldn’t say I’m “adamant” - but to answer your question I was looking to unGoogle my Google Drive and GMail, and Proton popped up pretty quick for having both. I’m currently paying for Private Internet Access VPN, but once that expires I could also get a 3rd function out of Proton with their VPN. I also want my new mail service to allow custom domains, which Proton also does.
Yeah drive is a pretty good feature. Do be warned though, proton’s overall Linux support is bad, including the VPN and drive. $8 for unlimited (which comes with everything you mentioned) a month is a little steep, but if you’ll use the VPN and the email it’s definitely worth it. Enjoy man.
Thanks! Fortunately (unfortunately?) I’m all Windows atm. Other than my pihole and photoframe.
I also use Windows. I get the attraction of Linux, I use it for my selfhosting, but I absolutely hate it for day-to-day operations or work. So, don’t feel too bad about it, people love shoving shit down others throats.
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My primary is gmail and my secondary is proton mail but I haven’t ever warmed up to proton mail. It’s been a few years.
I ask it to save my login and yet I always need log in again. Maybe their sessions expire by default, whereas gmail will keep me signed in until I clear my browser. Neither gmail or protonmail load very quickly, but proton mail is noticeably worse.
This is the way
Proton
I also degoogled to proton. Now one bill for VPN, drive and my own domain email address.
Proton Mail. https://pm.me/
Proton is my fav non Google email.
Skiff or Protonmail.
Skiff gives you 10 GBs of storage and also comes with a drive and a Notion-like Pages app. They even let you add custom domain for free. The only disadvantages are the non-native Android or iOS apps that just feel off and the limits on folders and filters.
ProtonMail only gives 1GB of storage and stuff like custom domains, aliases, etc are all paid features. The Android app is decent but missing some basic features that you only notice when you actually use it (select and delete when searching for example). Definitely the most robust mail service there is though. With Proton Unlimited, you also get stuff like per-site aliases using SimpleLogin, Proton VPN, Proton Drive, Proton Calendar and Proton Pass. But if I’m being honest, only the Mail and VPN are truly complete products.
Proton drive also seems pretty compete to me, now that they have a desktop app that’s working really well (at least for windows, don’t know about other OS’s)
I agree, it’s pretty functional. Only issue I’ve had with it is it’s pretty slow, and if you need to upload a lot of files quickly your out of luck.
My boss had me take a couple hundred pictures with my cell, and I didn’t want to waste my time trying to send via sms, so I uploaded then to my drive and shared them. It took 2 hours just to upload them.
a couple hundred pictures
send via sms
(⊙_◎)
Seriously though, that’s interesting. When I moved all my stuff over from Sync to Proton Drive, the upload took about as long as expected, with my uplink being used quite well, at least when larger files were being uploaded.
Yah, even as long as it took, there was no way I was texting him those photos.
I don’t think it was limited by connection speed. I usually get about 1mb down and half that upload, and with each photo about 2mb that should have finished in less than five minutes.
No sync functionality on Android and no webdav or such, so no support for apps like FolderSync. Also, no client for Linux and macOS.
With Proton Unlimited, you also get stuff like per-site aliases using SimpleLogin, Proton VPN, Proton Drive, Proton Calendar and Proton Pass. But if I’m being honest, only the Mail and VPN are truly complete products.
SimpleLogin is fantastic with a custom domain. Game changer for signing up to websites, especially if you use Bitwarden because they integrate seamlessly. I have paid Proton so the premium version is included for free. Not sure how the free version compares.
SimpleLogin is integrated directly into Proton Pass and Proton Pass has the ability to save them as “Aliases”. So that’s been really neat. I’ve been finding myself using Proton Pass over Bitwarden lately due to how the Proton Pass app syncs the vault better on Android and how the Aliases feature works better with the in-page autofill that Proton Pass has.
I’ve not noticed any issues with Bitwarden on Android in the last 2 years of using it - what was happening for you?
Currently BW seems like a bulletproof solution, but it’s good to have options.
BW does feel like a more bulletproof solution tbh. The Android app’s autofill is what I’m bothered by.
This for example, https://community.bitwarden.com/t/add-a-button-to-refresh-vault-in-ios-password-auto-fill-view/32989/9
And also the lack of a UI-based autofill (edit: in browser) means that it’s not possible to easily pick one among multiple logins for the same site.
On my Samsung there is an accessibility button at the far right of the navigation bar. You can configure this to wake up Bitwarden and make it available to autofill (long press). Once I set that up I haven’t had any issues with autofill.
You can pull down in the Android app to refresh, so that solves the problem in your link.
The pull down action does not work in the “Items for” autofill menu
Agree on Skiff. It’s like the app keeps reloading like if you used an ereader to check your mail
- Tutanota
- Protonmail
- Mailbox.org
- Posteo.de
- Runbox
- Fastmail
I would recommend either Mailbox or Posteo simply because they cost 1€/m. For email I find that anything more than like $2 is a waste of money, but that is my opinion.
Both Tutanota and Protonmail offer freemium versions of their services.
The most important part of Posteo and Mailbox.org is its easy to send and receive emails with non technical users
Do either of them support forwarding messages from another domain? I’ve worked places that blocked my personal email, so I’ve mostly used Gmail to forward my personal domain.
Which ones? I mentioned more than 2 lol
Been using Proton mail a couple months now. Very happy with it.
I moved to Fastmail last year and it’s been entirely unremarkable which is exactly what I want. Mail in and out works, it’s reliable, I have my custom domains.
It really depends on the level of privacy you’re going for and what features you want. For me I needed custom domain support with catchalls. The only other requirement I had was to not be Google. I debated between Fastmail and Proton for a while (Fastmail for features/price, Proton for the “better” privacy.) Ultimately I ended up on Fastmail because I would have had to pay for a higher than necessary account at Proton for what I wanted.
I’ve been on Fastmail for 10 years. It’s a great service.
Also since most other people aren’t using encrypted email, you kinda don’t really benefit from the Proton encryption afaik. I personally don’t understand the point.
Yep. It was a fun ooh look what I can do that I have exactly zero people to communicate with using those features.
In the same vein, not using Google is similarly silly. Most of my personal contacts use Gmail or o365 so they still get a copy of my email anyway. But at least this way my money isn’t going to them and nobody’s scanning my inbox to advertise to me (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
Ive not used proton, but Tutanota sends a link to the receiver if they don’t use Tutanota themselves. They have to click the link and enter a predetermined password to read the content
Would using proton keep the ads away?
I assume some since i assume gmail scans my inbox to serve me ads. But you’d get other ads from browsing history etc still. But Fastmail does the same thing i believe
I have been using Fastmail for a few years. No complaints. No issues. Entirely unremarkable.
Been with Fastmail for a year. Love their integration with 1password. Nobody gets my real email address. Even my 6th grader knows how to obfuscate email now. Too easy.
They have a similar integration with Bitwarden that I’ve used a bit. I ended up stopping though because I rely on a catch-all and just give out companyname@ or something generic like work@ or family@. Sure it’s easy to guess but I haven’t had any spam issues in the ~15 years I’ve been operating this way.
Nobody actually gets my Fastmail login address though. I picked a random string on one of their domains that’s literally only used to sign in. A fun little added obscurity feature.
After checking out most of these services I think I’ll go with Fastmail, has what I need, plenty of storage, can use third party apps without any hassle.
I used fastmail with a custom domain but random stuff from specific senders would disappear into the ether and never go through to my mailbox. Everything else worked fine though, but it was enough to switch me back to gmail for a while at least. LDAP is a requirement for me and most of the other popular providers now don’t have it.
Yeah I suppose I could be missing email and not know (because it never got delivered) but I get everything I expect to receive and I haven’t had anyone reach out asking why I haven’t responded to an email I never received. It’s good enough for me for now though.
LDAP support isn’t something that’s ever crossed my mind for mail, definitely a legit reason to stick with the Googs.
