since it default sorts by active, commenting to try to boost this in hexbear. on some hacker shit.

absolute boys

i hear she’s very talented

pissed at myself for falling for this before enlarging the photo

like the suffix in the url? yeah i always try to delete that shit

blinken jailed for life when

they don’t casually write it off the DNC actively tries to keep greens and anyone else off the ballot. Suggests to me it may be an avenue worth pursuing.

even better let’s just try to win the fuckin thing

The task is disproportionately difficult in the imperial core but i don’t think it’s impossible. “It always seems impossible until it’s done.” Mandela said that. I’m down to have someone school me and change my mind but they have to make the case beyond vague structural maneuvers. Even if that were true I’d say there’s value in forcing the regime to steal it, but after what Brazil and Mexico have been able to do, I’m highly skeptical of people in leftist circles trying to discourage voting as all together hopeless.

And just to clarify I’m definitely not arguing to vote for either mainstream corporate party. I’ll vote Jill Stein this time. I figure Greens have been maintaining the ballot access we may as well use it.

Hopefully my tone is not too off-putting! I am genuinely down to be shown the light but i haven’t seen a convincing argument yet personally and am just frustrated with our lack of collective progress. If our efforts should be better spent elsewhere in the next 5 months I definitely want to hear about that! Keep fighting, comrades.

(Bushnell is obviously a hero and legend. Palestine will be free.)

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inshallah it takes over the arby’s and returns it to the earth

so cringe

I feel like the best use of my time in the next 5 months is to get jill stein elected, but if people have any better ideas I’m all ears.

She seems good imo.

why do you think voting is futile in the U.S. when it has been successfully used by “populist” aka “democratic” movements in other countries? Specifically, I’m thinking Brazil or Mexico most recently. Not being combative but really just trying to learn more about why you think that’s true. Definitely open to the possibility that I’m wrong about this and just want to hear more.

I hadn’t heard the bad takes myself from West, but happy to be enlightened on it. He has seemed pretty morally consistent as far as I’ve seen, but like I said just because of ballot access I’m thinking Stein could be the strategic move to try to effect change on the electoral front.

Perhaps it’s the legacy of my lib-dem upbringing but I can’t help but think electoralism could be another effective front in the greater struggle. But like I’ve been saying I’m open to the idea that I’m wrong about that so happy to learn more if you think voting truly can’t be used to take power. I guess I’m just looking at the successes in Mexico and Brazil recently and thinking: why not here?

Yes love PSL, voted PSL in 2020 but if they’re not even on the ballot in 270 EC worth of states then I’m not sure I see the value in it. Open to hear the case for though.

Yes, I appreciate the good faith discussion about this. I really just want to figure out strategically the best way forward, because I have to admit after Bernie’s run in 16, I thought we’d be further along by now building up something new. As far as the Green Party goes, Stein’s positions on Palestine and Ukraine alone, not to mention the rest of her platform in general, I can’t help but seriously consider if this is the best strategic move for the next 5 months. The platform certainly doesn’t seem any worse than Bernie’s. They’ve been chugging along, putting in the hard yards to maintain ballot access. It seems now is as good a time as any to try to use that.

When I say I believe in voting I guess I mean in the abstract, that it can be used by democractic movements to achieve tangible things, like in Mexico and Brazil. So then I’m wondering if it is possible there then why not here? If there is something unique about the US system that makes it “impossible”, I just want to learn more about that and why people feel that way. I guess at the minute I am not convinced it’s completely hopeless outside the existing dominant corporate parties. But if people are convinced then I am open to hear why. Really trying to come at this with an open mind.

I know there are anti-democratic structural obstacles to winning here. The Electoral College is certainly less democratic than a popular vote. As far as I understand you need just a plurality, not majority, of votes in a state to win all of that state’s electoral votes in the EC. And then it’s 270 to win I guess which is the majority of total available. I could be wrong especially about the first part. Still, it doesn’t seem insurmountable?

The MSM problem is real, even if it continues to undermine itself in the eyes of more and more people as the contraditions become too obvious. Still, I feel like those other countries also have shameless corporate media, so I’m wondering how AMLO and Lula overcame them. I don’t know how they did it I wish I did. But again, if they did it, maybe we can?

I think there’s also value in forcing them to steal it from you, like Bernie did in 16 and 20. Having the undemocratic, top-down nature of the regime forced to reveal itself is useful, at least for the future. But really I’m thinking we should just try to spend the next 5 months and try to win. I know it seems impossible but Mandela said “it always seems impossible until it’s done” and that’s something I really believe. But if you’re not going to win, I guess making them steal it from you is the next best thing.

So basically let’s say a conservative estimate is that in a three way race we’d need 70 mil votes to actually win it. Bernie had 1 million volunteers, so that’d be like 70 votes turned per volunteer on average. Obviously we don’t have 1 million volunteers at the minute, but I don’t know it still seems possible and more importantly worth trying. Again, this is just how I see it. If I’m wrong about something, I’m open to hear people’s thoughts. I feel like this is as good a place as any that I know about to be having these discussions.

Damn that ended up being a lot my bad and thanks to anyone who read it all lol.