The problem arises when the people that moves here, that don’t like our culture, and wants to change it, but still moves because our country is more prosperous than theirs.
Lately my own country have gotten large violent musli mobs “protesting” by attacking innocent bystanders, as well as the pilice. Then we have Sweden which has had such a bad and violent crime wave, that they literally had to ask the military for help combatting it.
Why create unnecessary problems that could be avoided?
I can’t find any figures showing an actual crime wave in Sweden (excepting a sharp spike in 2020 followed by a significant decline in 2021, but 2020 had other circumstances that contributes that are distinctly different from immigration). What are you talking about? Right-wing parties always talk about how much worse the crime rates are due to immigrants, but data never seems to appear which supports this.
Whilst the sum total of crimes has fallen, the amount of serious violent crime has significantly increased and in some categories to never-before seen levels in Swedish history (bombings for instance).
In these statistics I would highlight murders, organised crime, threats and attempts to influence society, threats and harassment, weapon crimes, sex crimes and vandalism.
I can’t seem to access the first, so I will focus on the second.
1.) It is a study of Norway, not Sweden.
2.) The categories all kinda fluctuate, but the specific rates that are higher appear to be non-violent and the largest increase is traffic violations.
3.) This does not show an increase in crime rates overall as a result of immigration.
4.) Immigrant communities tend to be overpoliced which may explain increases in non-violent crime rates amongst the immigrant population (see this link detailing how Norwegian police purposefully focused on immigrants over the native population as an example of over-policing: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1362480619873347).
I likely missed details in this report as I do not read or speak Norwegian, but if I missed something vital, feel free to highlight it.
I didn’t know you referred to Sweden specifically (rather than Europe as a whole), but in I can tell you this much: Norway and Sweden is extremely similar culturally. Immigration patterns are also similar. I’m not Swedish so it’s generally a bit more difficult to find data about Sweden than Norway. But the data is likely to be fairly similar to Sweden.
And my original comments was based towards immigration towards Europe as a whole. Norway and Sweden are certainly both European countries.
3.) This does not show an increase in crime rates overall as a result of immigration.
It directly states that immigrants and children of non-Europeans immigrants are overrepresented by about 2,5x (fig 4.10).
And I’m not even sure why I have to defend myself.
Even if crime wasn’t a problem, we should be allowed to protect our culture. Not every country needs to be like USA.
1.) If you spend more time and resources looking for crime in one population than in another, then you are likely to find more crime in the scrutinized population.
2.) If it is about preserving a culture, there is no need to bring up crime rates.
1.) If you spend more time and resources looking for crime in one population than in another, then you are likely to find more crime in the scrutinized population.
I can literally walk around in the streets of our capital Oslo, and I get asked by a dealer (immigrant) if I want to buy weed (illegal in Norway). I’ve also had more than enough unpleasant encounters myself with people of muslim/african background, to make me believe the stats are legit.
Also, I may point to all the violent muslim mobs, referred to earlier. That stuff is scary, and not something ethnic/cultural Norwegians would do.
2.) If it is about preserving a culture, there is no need to bring up crime rates.
Crime is one of the problems though, even though it isn’t the only one. Which is why I don’t have nearly as much of a problem with immigrants from e.g. France or Germany.
Edit: forgot to also mention. We’ve had an explosion of gang-rapes towards underage girls (aged ~13-15) lately, done by immigrants of arab background. Makes me uncomfortable to even think about. Can dig up sources if necessary
Edit: forgot to also mention. We’ve had an explosion of gang-rapes towards underage girls (aged ~13-15) lately, done by immigrants of arab background. Makes me uncomfortable to even think about. Can dig up sources if necessary
Prove that the incidence of these are higher among immigrants than your citizens. Republicans in the US love to talk about illegal immigrants killing and raping people but then become suspiciously silent when Republicans and conservative donors are outed doing the same things.
I’m guessing that if you look into sexual assault committed by your country’s citizens, you’ll find the incidence rate is actually higher, because the majority of rape victims are raped by people known to them.
Prove that the incidence of these are higher among immigrants than your citizens. Republicans in the US love to talk about illegal immigrants killing and raping people but then become suspiciously silent when Republicans and conservative donors are outed doing the same things.
I was not able to find any statistics on it. So your argument is inconclusive, unless you can dig up a statistic.
However there has not been a single case of an assault gang rape done by ethnic Norwegians towards underage girls, in the same manner, at least not that has been reported by the police. (our newspapers are mostly centric/left-leaning, so it would end up in a newspaper if it happened)
Even if crime wasn’t a problem, we should be allowed to protect our culture. Not every country needs to be like USA.
Culture always changes. The culture of your country has not been like this since the dawn of time. There is no good reason, why it should stay just the way it is right now, only because “that’s the way it always has been” in your memory. Also if the newly arriving people make all of your felloelw countrypeople abandon their old ways, maybe their was something wrong with those traditions to begin with. If you are only worried because the new people will bring their own culture and stick to it, that just adds to the culture and doesn’t take yours away.
And I’m not even sure why I have to defend myself.
I personally think one needs really good reasons if one chooses to defend xenophobic policies and puts millions of people under the general suspicion of spreading crime and violence while nearly all of them are just trying to get away from the war and violence in the countries where they are coming from.
Culture always changes. The culture of your country has not been like this since the dawn of time. There is no good reason, why it should stay just the way it is right now, only because “that’s the way it always has been” in your memory. Also if the newly arriving people make all of your felloelw countrypeople abandon their old ways, maybe their was something wrong with those traditions to begin with. If you are only worried because the new people will bring their own culture and stick to it, that just adds to the culture and doesn’t take yours away.
And people have a right to resist changes, which they consider are for the worse. Which they do, as seen by the election results. Which appearently most of Lemmy has a problem with.
The problem arises when the people that moves here, that don’t like our culture, and wants to change it, but still moves because our country is more prosperous than theirs.
Lately my own country have gotten large violent musli mobs “protesting” by attacking innocent bystanders, as well as the pilice. Then we have Sweden which has had such a bad and violent crime wave, that they literally had to ask the military for help combatting it.
Why create unnecessary problems that could be avoided?
I can’t find any figures showing an actual crime wave in Sweden (excepting a sharp spike in 2020 followed by a significant decline in 2021, but 2020 had other circumstances that contributes that are distinctly different from immigration). What are you talking about? Right-wing parties always talk about how much worse the crime rates are due to immigrants, but data never seems to appear which supports this.
The problem with that is that you are using facts and evidence. This already dismantled the entire position and now nothing can save this guy
Facts and evidence: https://lemmy.world/comment/10553987
You can have a look here (government site in Swedish) for crimes divided by category:
https://bra.se/statistik/statistik-om-brottstyper.html
Whilst the sum total of crimes has fallen, the amount of serious violent crime has significantly increased and in some categories to never-before seen levels in Swedish history (bombings for instance).
In these statistics I would highlight murders, organised crime, threats and attempts to influence society, threats and harassment, weapon crimes, sex crimes and vandalism.
Perhaps you didn’t search well enough: https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/sverige-forsvaret-skal-hjelpe-politiet-i-gjengkrigen/16089740/
Data to support it: https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/artikler-og-publikasjoner/crime-among-immigrants-and-children-of-immigrants-in-norway
I can’t seem to access the first, so I will focus on the second.
1.) It is a study of Norway, not Sweden.
2.) The categories all kinda fluctuate, but the specific rates that are higher appear to be non-violent and the largest increase is traffic violations.
3.) This does not show an increase in crime rates overall as a result of immigration.
4.) Immigrant communities tend to be overpoliced which may explain increases in non-violent crime rates amongst the immigrant population (see this link detailing how Norwegian police purposefully focused on immigrants over the native population as an example of over-policing: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1362480619873347).
I likely missed details in this report as I do not read or speak Norwegian, but if I missed something vital, feel free to highlight it.
And now they won’t respond. You’ve done a through job debunking them.
30 minutes without a response, and you’ve already drawn a conclusion? Plus I have better things to do in life than arguing on Lemmy
Oh I was just going off of what “just asking questions” xenophobes usually do when their so called evidence is torn apart
Another comment where I provided details on this matter
https://lemmy.world/comment/10553987
I didn’t know you referred to Sweden specifically (rather than Europe as a whole), but in I can tell you this much: Norway and Sweden is extremely similar culturally. Immigration patterns are also similar. I’m not Swedish so it’s generally a bit more difficult to find data about Sweden than Norway. But the data is likely to be fairly similar to Sweden.
And my original comments was based towards immigration towards Europe as a whole. Norway and Sweden are certainly both European countries.
It directly states that immigrants and children of non-Europeans immigrants are overrepresented by about 2,5x (fig 4.10).
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1362480619873347). Your link isn’t working. But it makes sense to put the police where the crime actually happens.
And I’m not even sure why I have to defend myself. Even if crime wasn’t a problem, we should be allowed to protect our culture. Not every country needs to be like USA.
1.) If you spend more time and resources looking for crime in one population than in another, then you are likely to find more crime in the scrutinized population.
2.) If it is about preserving a culture, there is no need to bring up crime rates.
I can literally walk around in the streets of our capital Oslo, and I get asked by a dealer (immigrant) if I want to buy weed (illegal in Norway). I’ve also had more than enough unpleasant encounters myself with people of muslim/african background, to make me believe the stats are legit.
Also, I may point to all the violent muslim mobs, referred to earlier. That stuff is scary, and not something ethnic/cultural Norwegians would do.
Crime is one of the problems though, even though it isn’t the only one. Which is why I don’t have nearly as much of a problem with immigrants from e.g. France or Germany.
Edit: forgot to also mention. We’ve had an explosion of gang-rapes towards underage girls (aged ~13-15) lately, done by immigrants of arab background. Makes me uncomfortable to even think about. Can dig up sources if necessary
Prove that the incidence of these are higher among immigrants than your citizens. Republicans in the US love to talk about illegal immigrants killing and raping people but then become suspiciously silent when Republicans and conservative donors are outed doing the same things.
I’m guessing that if you look into sexual assault committed by your country’s citizens, you’ll find the incidence rate is actually higher, because the majority of rape victims are raped by people known to them.
I was not able to find any statistics on it. So your argument is inconclusive, unless you can dig up a statistic. However there has not been a single case of an assault gang rape done by ethnic Norwegians towards underage girls, in the same manner, at least not that has been reported by the police. (our newspapers are mostly centric/left-leaning, so it would end up in a newspaper if it happened)
Culture always changes. The culture of your country has not been like this since the dawn of time. There is no good reason, why it should stay just the way it is right now, only because “that’s the way it always has been” in your memory. Also if the newly arriving people make all of your felloelw countrypeople abandon their old ways, maybe their was something wrong with those traditions to begin with. If you are only worried because the new people will bring their own culture and stick to it, that just adds to the culture and doesn’t take yours away.
I personally think one needs really good reasons if one chooses to defend xenophobic policies and puts millions of people under the general suspicion of spreading crime and violence while nearly all of them are just trying to get away from the war and violence in the countries where they are coming from.
And people have a right to resist changes, which they consider are for the worse. Which they do, as seen by the election results. Which appearently most of Lemmy has a problem with.