Just because trump is an infinitely low bar doesn’t mean Biden isn’t actively supporting genocide.
I’m sick of seeing “But Trump is worse!!!1!” whenever there is a discussion of how fucking terrible Biden can be, especially on his candid genocide support. And the cries from the Democratic party to fall in line behind a president that is failing to support the will of the people in that party is a bit shitty, even though it is inevitable in such a hierarchical power structure.
Like, the problem isn’t “who would support genocide less” it is “why the fuck is the president supporting genocide” and the other question we should be asking is “what is causing us to be in the position that we are debating on who is the lesser evil pro genocide candidate”
Also, I’d like to point out that biden is a hardcore zionist. He will never not be a hardcore zionist. He will never be convinced to stop supporting israel, and we will lucky to even convince him to stop supporting israel until the genocide stops. Or to just call for a ceasefire now.
First pass the post says a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump. Sadly that’s how the system works. You need preferential voting to send a message of displeasure.
So this will stop and everyone will rally behind Biden after the primaries? I hope so. This one issue is horrific, and I wish there was a reasonable 'no genocide; option. There really isn’t though. And the sense I get lately is more ‘don’t vote Biden’ generically, without acknowledging the impact this could have once we’re through the primaries.
This type of vote will not be called for in the general because in the general, even if Biden does not change his stance on ending the Palestinian genocide, because the fascist republican alternative is worse.
Anyone who is calling for “don’t vote Biden” in the general election is a fascist. You can disregard them as they’re very likely just Russian bots trying to sow discontent.
I see many people who keep commenting here are not in tune with the “uncommitted vote” campaign because no major news org has really covered it. They don’t cover it because it is to end the Palestinian genocide and major news orgs have held a pro-Zionist line the entire time (e.g., there was a 400,000+ anti-genocide-in-Palestine march in DC maybe a month ago, and no news orgs covered it in any meaningful way (AP had coverage downplaying it the day before and none the day of) or at all (NYT did not cover it).). This is to once more try to enact the end of a US-funded genocide via the will of the voters in a safe way, as Biden is guaranteed to win the primary.
You do not understand how the US primary system works.
This was not the general election vote where Biden will face a fascist.
This was a 2nd term president democratic primary, which the incumbent almost always sweeps. This allows for protest voting with no actual repercussions like fascists winning.
They are protesting the active genocide of the Palestinian people, it is worth the effort to try to enact change which no downsides.
No shit thats how the system works. Its a hierarchical representative democracy with FPTP voting in a capitalist country, and we are seeing the inevitable endpoint of such a system. A system like our glorious failure of “democracy” will end in despots and fascists trying to sieze power through populism.
But you don’t need preferential voting to send a message of displeasure. There is nothing about FPTP that says you are incapable of voicing displeasure, it is done via different means than preferential voting.
The idea that a vote for biden is a vote for trump is a complete fallacy. In this failed republic, we don’t even have popular voting for the president. In many places around the country, your vote literally does not matterbecause of FPTP voting. If I’m unfortunate enough to live in a deep red state where there is no hope of the GOP losing, what difference does my vote make?
If I am more fortunate and live in a deep blue state, what difference does it make if I don’t vote at all? It’s incredibly unlikely biden will lose there, even if Biden is deeply unpopular amongst the voting base.
If I live in a swing state, you might then have an actual incentive to vote. But there is still the catch on what district you live in, because even in swing states there are some districts that are deel blue or deep red.
Because of the Electoral College the concept that “a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump” is complete horseshit for the majority of Americans. This is just a strategy to shame people into voting for someone they don’t like.
Not voting, or voting for third parties is the way to send displeasure with our two parties. Trying to restrict the only ways to voice displeasure is extremely unhealthy for what we claim is a democratic system. It is like taking painkillers to treat what would otherwise be treatable cancer. If you ignore the problem it will grow until it becomes untenable.
Leaving this threat open does a lot to shape policy. If that avenue was closed, the political elite class would have a less incentive to consider the needs of the working class. Considering there is a modicum of “democratic” choice in the US, if the needs are not considered, eventually the political class will make enough mistakes that people give up, and they will lose support, possibly for a long while.
Shaming people to vote is also a genuinely bad strategy. I was fucking pissed about this shit in 2016 and in 2020, even if I despise trump. Being shamed into an action is not exactly a good feeling, and having it repeatedly happen doesn’t exactly breed confidence in the system, it breeds contempt. If you are making a part of your own voting base feel contempt with you or the system, you are shooting yourself in the foot. It might have short term gains, but I worry that you will lose voters in the future.
Finally, this is the primaries. This election does not determine the outcome of the election in a given state or the nation as a whole, but it will demonstrate what could happen if Biden doesn’t change his strategy of ignoring the problem.
I’ll hardcore pass on voting for a treasonous bastard. I’m already amazed that we didn’t nuke the fucking planet when trump was in office. I’m not giving him a second chance.
Same. I’m not going to vote for an christofascist cunt who wants to take my rights as a queer person, or the rights of the people I care about.
I’m simply sick of the “BuT TrUmp!!!1” that is always shouted whenever people criticize biden. Every president is a war criminal. Biden deserves his criticism, even though trump is also culpable.
Saying “don’t vote Biden” is very important, actually, and it’s hardly bullshit.
First and foremost, when you are in the mindset that voting is all you can do, saying “Don’t vote for Biden” opens up a great conversation about voting, democracy, racism, and pretty much any issue that is tied to the US government. These conversations are important, and must happen. There is a radical praxis to not voting, whether you’d like it or not. If voting for one of two parties is the only acceptable form of political action, than not voting, voting third party, or something else (such as setting up prefigurative structures) is a good, radical action.
Before you point this out, I do have issue with how many leftists, communists, and anarchists just skip this conversation online, or say something like “Oh, these conversations have happened before, just read this book” or some nonsense. I get that having this conversation a million times is exhausting, but it’s important. You don’t have to do it every time, but if you are able to jump in and take over, you should!
If this conversation is good, it should point out that the supposed “democracy” we have is not only fragile, and being taken over by fascists, but that it was really only a democracy for a small group, not the idyllic idea of the majority getting their say and representation. It should also point out that this “democracy” has been a tool used against minorities as a cudgel, bringing pain and suffering for centuries. It should point out that there are many positions that the majority of the public want, like social/single payer healthcare, yet we have a top aide to the democratic speaker of the house, telling lobbyists to not worry about it!.
Second, Biden is not entitled to any voting, and he needs to be reminded of that with the threat of non-voting, and anti-voting advocacy. The idea that someone is entitled to your vote on the basis that they are not someone (IE: the lesser evil) else is antithetical to the core concept of democracy: bringing power and representation to the people (often through majority voting). Imagine that you have two candidates in a FPTP voting system, one person that is 100% hitler, and another who is 80% hitler. It is obvious that the lesser evil is the one that is 80% hitler, but if the country consists of primarily people who want a 0% hitler candidate, how is the 80% hitler, the lesser evil candidate, a representative of the people? How does that 80% hitler candidate represent the majority of the people? Isn’t that antithetical to the very concept of democracy that such a candidate can exist?
I get that it is a tactical position to vote for biden, considering that trump is so awful. I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for voting this way because it is genuinely a logical and reasonable conclusion, but I do think that the thought process that got them there needs a bit of evaluation.
Third, threatening to not vote for biden (and especially staying true to that threat) is good, actually. I’ve already mentioned that biden is not entitled to a vote, but it’s also important to mention that biden is a human being who has the capability of acting to fix this. “Remember to vote for the lesser evil!” is, unfortunately, placing the blame for biden’s actions on the individuals affected by it, rather than the person who did the actions in the first place. Thinking solely from this mindset does not hold biden accountable to his actions, and often leads to blame being placed on people for not voting against their interests.
Finally, you mention “writing to your congresspersons”. I think this is a great idea, but it should not be the only mechanisms of political action aside from voting. I can safely tell you that this is often ineffective. One of my best friends was an aide to a representative in congress for a few years before and during Trump’s presidency. He has been at the receiving end of a calling campaign from some bigots in my state advocating for an anti-trans bathroom bill, and he told me at some point, he stopped paying attention to it, and he was getting pissed off because it was taking up his time that could otherwise be spent working with residents of the state with other problems, such as social security, VA benefits, etc.
Since my dinner break is coming to a close, all I can really do is be that annoying leftist who shoves a book in your face and recommend a short(ish) book that I loved reading about democracy and voting, and the myths it promotes. Crimethinc.'s “From Democracy to Freedom” is freely available as a PDF online through the publisher, Crimethinc.
This will sound terrible of me, but while this was a truly wonderful and thought provoking post I am the worst person to reply to it as I fatigue quickly from replying with a respectfully long post.
That being said, I’ll give the book a read! I also agree with the idea of voting 3rd party. I personally don’t have such a party I agree with but if you do, I want you to vote the way you feel.
Just because trump is an infinitely low bar doesn’t mean Biden isn’t actively supporting genocide.
I’m sick of seeing “But Trump is worse!!!1!” whenever there is a discussion of how fucking terrible Biden can be, especially on his candid genocide support. And the cries from the Democratic party to fall in line behind a president that is failing to support the will of the people in that party is a bit shitty, even though it is inevitable in such a hierarchical power structure.
Like, the problem isn’t “who would support genocide less” it is “why the fuck is the president supporting genocide” and the other question we should be asking is “what is causing us to be in the position that we are debating on who is the lesser evil pro genocide candidate”
Also, I’d like to point out that biden is a hardcore zionist. He will never not be a hardcore zionist. He will never be convinced to stop supporting israel, and we will lucky to even convince him to stop supporting israel until the genocide stops. Or to just call for a ceasefire now.
First pass the post says a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump. Sadly that’s how the system works. You need preferential voting to send a message of displeasure.
girl u may have missed that this was for the primaries, not the general election
So this will stop and everyone will rally behind Biden after the primaries? I hope so. This one issue is horrific, and I wish there was a reasonable 'no genocide; option. There really isn’t though. And the sense I get lately is more ‘don’t vote Biden’ generically, without acknowledging the impact this could have once we’re through the primaries.
This type of vote will not be called for in the general because in the general, even if Biden does not change his stance on ending the Palestinian genocide, because the fascist republican alternative is worse.
Anyone who is calling for “don’t vote Biden” in the general election is a fascist. You can disregard them as they’re very likely just Russian bots trying to sow discontent.
I see many people who keep commenting here are not in tune with the “uncommitted vote” campaign because no major news org has really covered it. They don’t cover it because it is to end the Palestinian genocide and major news orgs have held a pro-Zionist line the entire time (e.g., there was a 400,000+ anti-genocide-in-Palestine march in DC maybe a month ago, and no news orgs covered it in any meaningful way (AP had coverage downplaying it the day before and none the day of) or at all (NYT did not cover it).). This is to once more try to enact the end of a US-funded genocide via the will of the voters in a safe way, as Biden is guaranteed to win the primary.
You do not understand how the US primary system works.
This was not the general election vote where Biden will face a fascist.
This was a 2nd term president democratic primary, which the incumbent almost always sweeps. This allows for protest voting with no actual repercussions like fascists winning.
They are protesting the active genocide of the Palestinian people, it is worth the effort to try to enact change which no downsides.
No shit thats how the system works. Its a hierarchical representative democracy with FPTP voting in a capitalist country, and we are seeing the inevitable endpoint of such a system. A system like our glorious failure of “democracy” will end in despots and fascists trying to sieze power through populism.
But you don’t need preferential voting to send a message of displeasure. There is nothing about FPTP that says you are incapable of voicing displeasure, it is done via different means than preferential voting.
The idea that a vote for biden is a vote for trump is a complete fallacy. In this failed republic, we don’t even have popular voting for the president. In many places around the country, your vote literally does not matter because of FPTP voting. If I’m unfortunate enough to live in a deep red state where there is no hope of the GOP losing, what difference does my vote make?
If I am more fortunate and live in a deep blue state, what difference does it make if I don’t vote at all? It’s incredibly unlikely biden will lose there, even if Biden is deeply unpopular amongst the voting base.
If I live in a swing state, you might then have an actual incentive to vote. But there is still the catch on what district you live in, because even in swing states there are some districts that are deel blue or deep red.
Because of the Electoral College the concept that “a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump” is complete horseshit for the majority of Americans. This is just a strategy to shame people into voting for someone they don’t like.
Not voting, or voting for third parties is the way to send displeasure with our two parties. Trying to restrict the only ways to voice displeasure is extremely unhealthy for what we claim is a democratic system. It is like taking painkillers to treat what would otherwise be treatable cancer. If you ignore the problem it will grow until it becomes untenable.
Leaving this threat open does a lot to shape policy. If that avenue was closed, the political elite class would have a less incentive to consider the needs of the working class. Considering there is a modicum of “democratic” choice in the US, if the needs are not considered, eventually the political class will make enough mistakes that people give up, and they will lose support, possibly for a long while.
Shaming people to vote is also a genuinely bad strategy. I was fucking pissed about this shit in 2016 and in 2020, even if I despise trump. Being shamed into an action is not exactly a good feeling, and having it repeatedly happen doesn’t exactly breed confidence in the system, it breeds contempt. If you are making a part of your own voting base feel contempt with you or the system, you are shooting yourself in the foot. It might have short term gains, but I worry that you will lose voters in the future.
Finally, this is the primaries. This election does not determine the outcome of the election in a given state or the nation as a whole, but it will demonstrate what could happen if Biden doesn’t change his strategy of ignoring the problem.
I’ll hardcore pass on voting for a treasonous bastard. I’m already amazed that we didn’t nuke the fucking planet when trump was in office. I’m not giving him a second chance.
Same. I’m not going to vote for an christofascist cunt who wants to take my rights as a queer person, or the rights of the people I care about.
I’m simply sick of the “BuT TrUmp!!!1” that is always shouted whenever people criticize biden. Every president is a war criminal. Biden deserves his criticism, even though trump is also culpable.
100% criticize away! I’m just getting annoyed by seeing all of the “don’t vote Biden” bullshit lately.
Imo an acceptable alternative is “remember to vote for the lesser evil!”
Or even my favorite, “write your congresspersons to stop the genocide!”
I’m gonna push back a little on that thought.
Saying “don’t vote Biden” is very important, actually, and it’s hardly bullshit.
First and foremost, when you are in the mindset that voting is all you can do, saying “Don’t vote for Biden” opens up a great conversation about voting, democracy, racism, and pretty much any issue that is tied to the US government. These conversations are important, and must happen. There is a radical praxis to not voting, whether you’d like it or not. If voting for one of two parties is the only acceptable form of political action, than not voting, voting third party, or something else (such as setting up prefigurative structures) is a good, radical action.
Before you point this out, I do have issue with how many leftists, communists, and anarchists just skip this conversation online, or say something like “Oh, these conversations have happened before, just read this book” or some nonsense. I get that having this conversation a million times is exhausting, but it’s important. You don’t have to do it every time, but if you are able to jump in and take over, you should!
If this conversation is good, it should point out that the supposed “democracy” we have is not only fragile, and being taken over by fascists, but that it was really only a democracy for a small group, not the idyllic idea of the majority getting their say and representation. It should also point out that this “democracy” has been a tool used against minorities as a cudgel, bringing pain and suffering for centuries. It should point out that there are many positions that the majority of the public want, like social/single payer healthcare, yet we have a top aide to the democratic speaker of the house, telling lobbyists to not worry about it!.
Second, Biden is not entitled to any voting, and he needs to be reminded of that with the threat of non-voting, and anti-voting advocacy. The idea that someone is entitled to your vote on the basis that they are not someone (IE: the lesser evil) else is antithetical to the core concept of democracy: bringing power and representation to the people (often through majority voting). Imagine that you have two candidates in a FPTP voting system, one person that is 100% hitler, and another who is 80% hitler. It is obvious that the lesser evil is the one that is 80% hitler, but if the country consists of primarily people who want a 0% hitler candidate, how is the 80% hitler, the lesser evil candidate, a representative of the people? How does that 80% hitler candidate represent the majority of the people? Isn’t that antithetical to the very concept of democracy that such a candidate can exist?
I get that it is a tactical position to vote for biden, considering that trump is so awful. I don’t think it’s fair to criticize someone for voting this way because it is genuinely a logical and reasonable conclusion, but I do think that the thought process that got them there needs a bit of evaluation.
Third, threatening to not vote for biden (and especially staying true to that threat) is good, actually. I’ve already mentioned that biden is not entitled to a vote, but it’s also important to mention that biden is a human being who has the capability of acting to fix this. “Remember to vote for the lesser evil!” is, unfortunately, placing the blame for biden’s actions on the individuals affected by it, rather than the person who did the actions in the first place. Thinking solely from this mindset does not hold biden accountable to his actions, and often leads to blame being placed on people for not voting against their interests.
Finally, you mention “writing to your congresspersons”. I think this is a great idea, but it should not be the only mechanisms of political action aside from voting. I can safely tell you that this is often ineffective. One of my best friends was an aide to a representative in congress for a few years before and during Trump’s presidency. He has been at the receiving end of a calling campaign from some bigots in my state advocating for an anti-trans bathroom bill, and he told me at some point, he stopped paying attention to it, and he was getting pissed off because it was taking up his time that could otherwise be spent working with residents of the state with other problems, such as social security, VA benefits, etc.
Since my dinner break is coming to a close, all I can really do is be that annoying leftist who shoves a book in your face and recommend a short(ish) book that I loved reading about democracy and voting, and the myths it promotes. Crimethinc.'s “From Democracy to Freedom” is freely available as a PDF online through the publisher, Crimethinc.
This will sound terrible of me, but while this was a truly wonderful and thought provoking post I am the worst person to reply to it as I fatigue quickly from replying with a respectfully long post.
That being said, I’ll give the book a read! I also agree with the idea of voting 3rd party. I personally don’t have such a party I agree with but if you do, I want you to vote the way you feel.
That’s completely fine, I’ve gotten that leftist 4 hour video essay brain where I just simply use way too many words to explain myself