The allies were defending people. Besides that, they did many immoral things, such as killing deserters of their own side. If you hurt Nazis out of spite when they are not posing a threat to yours or other’s lives, then that is not justified.
Read my other reply to a reply to my comment. But I’m worried if we set the ‘threat to lives’ bar too low, when they are not actually killing people, they can do the same, and kill you because you are a potential threat to their lives, or the lives of what they would think are genetically inferior children.
Whatever you decide, it has to go both ways, otherwise is it just a excuse for authoritarian enforcement of whatever your belief happens to be.
I don’t really think that I’m going to convince anyone I’m arguing with right now, but I’m hoping that lurkers, and those who might see this in the future, see that not wanting to kill Nazis is actually a valid opinion that exists.
No, did I ever threaten you with violence in response? You’re straw manning my argument. Both positions where you want to kill any group of people are wrong, and I will try and stop them both in non violent ways - as now, when I am writing this for the benefit of lurkers that they possibly change their mind.
You’re not actually worried about that. You’re trying to defend them because deep down inside, you agree with some of the things they say and think Nazism and fascism are legitimate political ideologies when they are not, and never have been.
You said the allies were defending people. The purpose of the U.S. in the war was offense, not defense. I’m not sure why you being incorrect about that part of your comment should be ignored just because you wrote other things.
Because it’s not incorrect when you read the rest of my comment, specifically the quoted and emboldened part? They were defending other’s lives, not their own.
They were not defending anyone’s lives. They were not there to defend lives. They were there to kill Nazis. That they were able to save lives while doing it is good, but that wasn’t the plan. They didn’t say “well we could attack the Wehrmacht, but instead maybe we’ll stop them from running their tanks through that town with a blockade.” They just bombed the shit out of them.
If their goal was not to protect people but to kill nazis, maybe they were doing something wrong. Anyway, it’s different in wartime. We are not in wartime, and modern day people who believe in Nazism are not killing people, so no violent means to convert them will be more effective. Anyway, you’re not even killing them, but expressing your desire to kill them, which if they saw it, all that would happen is you would antagonise them, and make non violent methods less productive, as they would scream ‘Radical Liberals wanttto kill us for our beliefs’ and develop a (rightful) persecution complex, ignoring that they are persecuting other people, or would, if they could.
But they won’t see this, as you posted this in a far left echo chamber, and they are stuck in their own far right echo chamber. All these sorts of comments (‘all nazis should be killed’) do is drive people apart and make them less susceptible to argument.
I have responded to what people are saying in their whole comments. Just because I read their whole comment doesn’t mean I agree with them, and I think I have explained why I don’t agree in my reply. I replied thinking the replyer has a short attention span, as they hadn’t seem to have read the quoted section of my comment, that would have answered their question I thought.
See when someone’s wilful ignorance and stupidity extends to such levels that they refuse to comprehend, reason, and think, then there’s no further room for discussion or conversation, you weren’t interested in either, just forcing your poorly developed opinion down other people’s throats.
So no, fuck you for being a disingenuous, willfully ignorant piece of shit, the pain of dealing with your stupidity shouldn’t be a one way street.
I’m not justifying their ideology, and I fully support trying to change their mind and decrease their influence in non-violent ways. Your apparent desire to kill anyone for a belief they currently hold is antithetical to a free and happy society, and ignores how their Nazism may not be a permanent belief, and could be changed through non violent means, such as education, deradicalisation therapy, and general reorganization of society to increase happiness and wellbeing, which would need democratic action to take place.
How did I justify their ideology? Or are you one of those black and white people that think disagreeing with you about anything means automatically agreeing 100% with your political enemy?
How did I justify their ideology? Or are you one of those black and white people that think disagreeing with you about anything means automatically agreeing 100% with your political enemy?
Your apparent desire to kill anyone for a belief they currently hold is antithetical to a free and happy society,
But theirs doesn’t; their desires are legitimate political beliefs that have to be respected, catered to and appeased while the left even thinking of doing anything in the name of their best interests or even their survival is completely morally unacceptable and needs to be shot down whenever possible.
And when fascists actually do murder people in public, it’s completely ignored by you.
I’m not talking to Nazis right now, but if I was, I would also advocate that they don’t kill, or threaten to kill people, and if it was in real life, encourage them to spend time with people from races they discriminate against, to show them that the people aren’t all that bad.
The problem is, we can’t have a free and happy society with Nazi’s in it. Yeah sure wanting Nazi’s dead is bad, but “reorganizing society to increase happiness and wellbeing” isn’t something that will happen quickly, but still they continue to exist.
Of course, the last one is a long term change, but you can still try to befriend Nazis and show them other races aren’t that bad. Often they are racist because they haven’t had exposure to other races, so you can give them that. You can still argue with them, get them therapy. But can’t anyone see that saying you want to kill them makes you look good and get upvotes to your left wing echo chamber, but for the actual Nazis that you supposedly hate, all it does is drive them apart and make them more strong in their beliefs?
Could you inform me as to when, exactly, someone whose ideology is based around the sudden and unsupported overthrow of legitimate government through a mixture of public chilling violence and abuse of democratic institutions, in favor of a regime that worships death and war, and believes undesirables should be exterminated on an industrial scale, is NOT a threat to mine or others’ lives?
Punching Nazis is unacceptable because we outsource our violence to the government, and democratic governments must be careful about applying violence to opinions if they wish to retain legitimacy. Not because Nazis aren’t 100% deserving of a beat-down.
They are a potential threat, they are not killing people in the streets. If it got to that, non violent protest would be much weaker. But as it is, we can have a greater impact, and actually change people’s minds rather than just antagonise them and stay inside our respective echo chambers, by using the non violent methods listed in my other comment.
On an individual basis, deal with the people killing people in the streets, preferably non violently, violently if you have to. But the other Nazis, the majority of them, who were taught their beliefs from their parents and online echo chambers, and never questioned them, can be much better converted by argument and education than displaying your intent to kill them.
When someone says they want to kill you, you don’t think ‘I should believe something different’ (and anyway someone convinced against their will is of the same opinion still), you think, ‘these people are dangerous, I need to fight them back’.
Do you see how violence, or the threat of violent towards Nazis doesn’t change their minds, but only make them more antagonised toward you?
I suggest you actually look at what Nazis, Neo-Nazis, and Fascist fucks regularly do to homeless camps. It’s not pretty, and sometimes police officers join in on the violence.
Then there’s the active assaults on random people in Portland, that shit happens every couple of months when one of these groups holds a rally there. Note that none of these fucks live in Portland, they just like to go in and throw their weight around.
All this in an environment where their ideology is not supported by the main stream. When Nazis and Fascist gain power, they spread hatred and violence. It’s what they do, because it’s what the ideology demands.
They are a proven threat. They DID kill people in the streets. This isn’t a “three strikes and you’re out” situation. Nazis do not get the benefit of the doubt, nor do they deserve it.
A Nazi will always be a threat to you and yours. The changes they’re forcing through Congress are evidence enough of their disdain for “others”, but you can always research the violence inflicted on their political opponents that they seem immune to if you’d like.
Read my other comments and decide again if you think I’m defending Nazis. I realise that things aren’t black and white, and the allies did some bad things too, but I still think what the Nazis did in WW2 was evil. I just don’t think violently assaulting them now, or saying that you want to, will actually convert Nazis to your side, it will only antagonise them further.
Nazism is a caustic, violent, hateful ideology that is intentionally and purposefully threatening by its very nature. There is no such thing as a Nazi that doesn’t pose a threat.
Yeah. And then read mine about how any Nazi represents a clear and present danger to literally everyone who is not also a Nazi. They do not get the benefit of the doubt, ever, under any circumstances.
So the Allies were the same as the Axis Nazis?
The allies were defending people. Besides that, they did many immoral things, such as killing deserters of their own side. If you hurt Nazis out of spite when they are not posing a threat to yours or other’s lives, then that is not justified.
“If you hurt Nazis out of spite when they are not posing a threat to yours or other’s lives, then that is not justified.”
Correct.
But nazis are, by definition, a threat to other’s lives, so violence against them is always justified.
Read my other reply to a reply to my comment. But I’m worried if we set the ‘threat to lives’ bar too low, when they are not actually killing people, they can do the same, and kill you because you are a potential threat to their lives, or the lives of what they would think are genetically inferior children.
Whatever you decide, it has to go both ways, otherwise is it just a excuse for authoritarian enforcement of whatever your belief happens to be.
Only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. Your incapacity to believe them when they show you their ideals is a failure on your part.
A nazi isn’t a race of people, it is a belief held by a person, and beliefs can be changed.
Good, let the threat of death be the motivator for Nazis to change their ideology.
A person convinced against their will is of the sake opinion still.
Nobody is convinced against their will, fucking moron. Go ahead say another bunch of stupid shit you don’t even comprehend properly yourself.
you can take the veil off whenever, nobody here believes you’re anything but a nazi
I don’t really think that I’m going to convince anyone I’m arguing with right now, but I’m hoping that lurkers, and those who might see this in the future, see that not wanting to kill Nazis is actually a valid opinion that exists.
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Yeah it’s a viable option for people who love Nazis
Yeah it’s a viable option for
people who loveNazisFTFY
So, let’s see if i got this right:
when i say nazis deserve violence that’s unacceptable and i deserve violence in response.
But when nazis say jews, LGBT+ people and other groups deserve violence it’s not ok to wish violence upon them in response.
🤔 Curious.
No, did I ever threaten you with violence in response? You’re straw manning my argument. Both positions where you want to kill any group of people are wrong, and I will try and stop them both in non violent ways - as now, when I am writing this for the benefit of lurkers that they possibly change their mind.
You’re not actually worried about that. You’re trying to defend them because deep down inside, you agree with some of the things they say and think Nazism and fascism are legitimate political ideologies when they are not, and never have been.
Now you’re just claiming stuff which you have no evidence for, and that I refute.
The U.S. wasn’t defending its people. The U.S. was just fighting Nazis.
Did you even read beyond the first sentence of my comment?
I know attention spans are short these days, but 4 sentences?
You said the allies were defending people. The purpose of the U.S. in the war was offense, not defense. I’m not sure why you being incorrect about that part of your comment should be ignored just because you wrote other things.
Because it’s not incorrect when you read the rest of my comment, specifically the quoted and emboldened part? They were defending other’s lives, not their own.
They were not defending anyone’s lives. They were not there to defend lives. They were there to kill Nazis. That they were able to save lives while doing it is good, but that wasn’t the plan. They didn’t say “well we could attack the Wehrmacht, but instead maybe we’ll stop them from running their tanks through that town with a blockade.” They just bombed the shit out of them.
If their goal was not to protect people but to kill nazis, maybe they were doing something wrong. Anyway, it’s different in wartime. We are not in wartime, and modern day people who believe in Nazism are not killing people, so no violent means to convert them will be more effective. Anyway, you’re not even killing them, but expressing your desire to kill them, which if they saw it, all that would happen is you would antagonise them, and make non violent methods less productive, as they would scream ‘Radical Liberals wanttto kill us for our beliefs’ and develop a (rightful) persecution complex, ignoring that they are persecuting other people, or would, if they could.
But they won’t see this, as you posted this in a far left echo chamber, and they are stuck in their own far right echo chamber. All these sorts of comments (‘all nazis should be killed’) do is drive people apart and make them less susceptible to argument.
Are you seriously saying prioritizing stopping a genocidal maniac from destroying the world is wrong? Seriously?
Not for lack of trying. Or have you not noticed all the mass shootings? They need to be stopped before it gets worse.
Rich coming from the person who’s been told the same thing 10 times by as many different people and still can’t clue on.
I have responded to what people are saying in their whole comments. Just because I read their whole comment doesn’t mean I agree with them, and I think I have explained why I don’t agree in my reply. I replied thinking the replyer has a short attention span, as they hadn’t seem to have read the quoted section of my comment, that would have answered their question I thought.
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Letting a Nazi live is immoral. Don’t ever try to justify their ideology and paint it as okay to be left alone.
Death penalty for mind crime is really immoral in my book.
And being a Nazi isn’t?
It is. So, should you be on the level of Nazi, or worse?
Do you practice being this stupid or does it come naturally?
Do you practice being asshole or does it come naturally? My post did not deserve personal attack.
Both.
See when someone’s wilful ignorance and stupidity extends to such levels that they refuse to comprehend, reason, and think, then there’s no further room for discussion or conversation, you weren’t interested in either, just forcing your poorly developed opinion down other people’s throats.
So no, fuck you for being a disingenuous, willfully ignorant piece of shit, the pain of dealing with your stupidity shouldn’t be a one way street.
Nazi apologists deserve the same fate as Nazis.
If you only have thoughts in your head, and don’t act on them, it’s impossible for anyone to know you’re a piece of shit.
I’m not justifying their ideology, and I fully support trying to change their mind and decrease their influence in non-violent ways. Your apparent desire to kill anyone for a belief they currently hold is antithetical to a free and happy society, and ignores how their Nazism may not be a permanent belief, and could be changed through non violent means, such as education, deradicalisation therapy, and general reorganization of society to increase happiness and wellbeing, which would need democratic action to take place.
you are absolutely justifying their ideology, nazi.
How did I justify their ideology? Or are you one of those black and white people that think disagreeing with you about anything means automatically agreeing 100% with your political enemy?
How did I justify their ideology? Or are you one of those black and white people that think disagreeing with you about anything means automatically agreeing 100% with your political enemy?
But theirs doesn’t; their desires are legitimate political beliefs that have to be respected, catered to and appeased while the left even thinking of doing anything in the name of their best interests or even their survival is completely morally unacceptable and needs to be shot down whenever possible.
And when fascists actually do murder people in public, it’s completely ignored by you.
I’m not talking to Nazis right now, but if I was, I would also advocate that they don’t kill, or threaten to kill people, and if it was in real life, encourage them to spend time with people from races they discriminate against, to show them that the people aren’t all that bad.
I’m for less killing all round.
Go on a long walk in the Serengeti and explain to the lions that you won’t fight back, but that them eating you breaks your personal moral code.
Come back and tell us about it.
The problem is, we can’t have a free and happy society with Nazi’s in it. Yeah sure wanting Nazi’s dead is bad, but “reorganizing society to increase happiness and wellbeing” isn’t something that will happen quickly, but still they continue to exist.
Of course, the last one is a long term change, but you can still try to befriend Nazis and show them other races aren’t that bad. Often they are racist because they haven’t had exposure to other races, so you can give them that. You can still argue with them, get them therapy. But can’t anyone see that saying you want to kill them makes you look good and get upvotes to your left wing echo chamber, but for the actual Nazis that you supposedly hate, all it does is drive them apart and make them more strong in their beliefs?
Could you inform me as to when, exactly, someone whose ideology is based around the sudden and unsupported overthrow of legitimate government through a mixture of public chilling violence and abuse of democratic institutions, in favor of a regime that worships death and war, and believes undesirables should be exterminated on an industrial scale, is NOT a threat to mine or others’ lives?
Punching Nazis is unacceptable because we outsource our violence to the government, and democratic governments must be careful about applying violence to opinions if they wish to retain legitimacy. Not because Nazis aren’t 100% deserving of a beat-down.
They are a potential threat, they are not killing people in the streets. If it got to that, non violent protest would be much weaker. But as it is, we can have a greater impact, and actually change people’s minds rather than just antagonise them and stay inside our respective echo chambers, by using the non violent methods listed in my other comment.
Learn something, you ignorant fuck.
On an individual basis, deal with the people killing people in the streets, preferably non violently, violently if you have to. But the other Nazis, the majority of them, who were taught their beliefs from their parents and online echo chambers, and never questioned them, can be much better converted by argument and education than displaying your intent to kill them.
When someone says they want to kill you, you don’t think ‘I should believe something different’ (and anyway someone convinced against their will is of the same opinion still), you think, ‘these people are dangerous, I need to fight them back’.
Do you see how violence, or the threat of violent towards Nazis doesn’t change their minds, but only make them more antagonised toward you?
I suggest you actually look at what Nazis, Neo-Nazis, and Fascist fucks regularly do to homeless camps. It’s not pretty, and sometimes police officers join in on the violence.
Then there’s the active assaults on random people in Portland, that shit happens every couple of months when one of these groups holds a rally there. Note that none of these fucks live in Portland, they just like to go in and throw their weight around.
All this in an environment where their ideology is not supported by the main stream. When Nazis and Fascist gain power, they spread hatred and violence. It’s what they do, because it’s what the ideology demands.
They are a proven threat. They DID kill people in the streets. This isn’t a “three strikes and you’re out” situation. Nazis do not get the benefit of the doubt, nor do they deserve it.
They already received like 5+ strikes the first time around, this time they get zero
A Nazi will always be a threat to you and yours. The changes they’re forcing through Congress are evidence enough of their disdain for “others”, but you can always research the violence inflicted on their political opponents that they seem immune to if you’d like.
You’re out here undermining the actions of Allies to defend Nazis and you don’t see a problem with your behavior.
Read my other comments and decide again if you think I’m defending Nazis. I realise that things aren’t black and white, and the allies did some bad things too, but I still think what the Nazis did in WW2 was evil. I just don’t think violently assaulting them now, or saying that you want to, will actually convert Nazis to your side, it will only antagonise them further.
It’s an argument in what’s practical.
Nazism is a caustic, violent, hateful ideology that is intentionally and purposefully threatening by its very nature. There is no such thing as a Nazi that doesn’t pose a threat.
Read my other comments about taking non violent action.
Yeah. And then read mine about how any Nazi represents a clear and present danger to literally everyone who is not also a Nazi. They do not get the benefit of the doubt, ever, under any circumstances.