If we have so little influence over Israel than that undermines your argument that we’re getting “power coupons” in return. I’m not even debating you on the morality of Kissinger, I’m meeting you where you stand: if we don’t exercise our influence then we are going to lose it (and Kissinger agrees with me on that at least)
You are strawmanning me. I never said no influence. I said that influence does not equal control. The us has a lot of influence, but as a parallel, did the entire rest of the world advising the us against invading iraq do anything to stop the us? No. The US said “You’re either with us or against us.”.
I also never suggested that we were getting power coupons in return. What I said was that foreign policy is about power and power coupons.
If Israel is hell bent on doing what they are doing there is no amount of influence that is going to stop them. If at that point you suggest doing it militarily, I would dismiss you for being a blithering idiot.
We have been exercising our influence. Are you fucking blind? Biden et al have been doing pretzels trying to keep this from spilling out of hand. You have to be blind. I assume you’re not an idiot. Maybe you are one of these people who are incapable of reading between the lines. Yes, in front of a microphone, Biden and anyone else says unequivocal support for Israel etc etc, however, at every other turn, Biden, Blinken, and every ambassador and negotiator is trying to get Israel to “Lessen ground operations”, “Allow humanitarian pauses”, “make a pathway for aid”, etc.
I am probably farther left than you, politically, but you need to understand that in the same way that fox news, oan, newsmax, and whatever else can whip republicans into a frothy furor, left leaning publicans can AND DO do the same to lefties. It’s very easy to leave out nuance which provides context.
I suggest spending some more time looking behind the headlines into what is actually being done, because it is a LOT. Israel is currently hellbent on being a bunch of self righteous jackasses, and so they aren’t taking a lot of advice. And a lot of the advice comes in the form of “I fully support you and we are behind you 100%, but man, I wouldn’t do that shit if I was you”.
At this point I’m done discussing this with you. You seem to want to just cling to outrage and ignore nuance because it’s easier that way, and if that’s the case, then I’m wasting our time. Additionally, you keep trying to build a straw man, and I have little patience for that sort of thing.
If we have so little influence over Israel than that undermines your argument that we’re getting “power coupons” in return. I’m not even debating you on the morality of Kissinger, I’m meeting you where you stand: if we don’t exercise our influence then we are going to lose it (and Kissinger agrees with me on that at least)
You are strawmanning me. I never said no influence. I said that influence does not equal control. The us has a lot of influence, but as a parallel, did the entire rest of the world advising the us against invading iraq do anything to stop the us? No. The US said “You’re either with us or against us.”.
I also never suggested that we were getting power coupons in return. What I said was that foreign policy is about power and power coupons.
If Israel is hell bent on doing what they are doing there is no amount of influence that is going to stop them. If at that point you suggest doing it militarily, I would dismiss you for being a blithering idiot.
We have been exercising our influence. Are you fucking blind? Biden et al have been doing pretzels trying to keep this from spilling out of hand. You have to be blind. I assume you’re not an idiot. Maybe you are one of these people who are incapable of reading between the lines. Yes, in front of a microphone, Biden and anyone else says unequivocal support for Israel etc etc, however, at every other turn, Biden, Blinken, and every ambassador and negotiator is trying to get Israel to “Lessen ground operations”, “Allow humanitarian pauses”, “make a pathway for aid”, etc.
I am probably farther left than you, politically, but you need to understand that in the same way that fox news, oan, newsmax, and whatever else can whip republicans into a frothy furor, left leaning publicans can AND DO do the same to lefties. It’s very easy to leave out nuance which provides context.
I suggest spending some more time looking behind the headlines into what is actually being done, because it is a LOT. Israel is currently hellbent on being a bunch of self righteous jackasses, and so they aren’t taking a lot of advice. And a lot of the advice comes in the form of “I fully support you and we are behind you 100%, but man, I wouldn’t do that shit if I was you”.
At this point I’m done discussing this with you. You seem to want to just cling to outrage and ignore nuance because it’s easier that way, and if that’s the case, then I’m wasting our time. Additionally, you keep trying to build a straw man, and I have little patience for that sort of thing.
Maybe I would receive your arguments with more grace if it wasn’t laced with personal judgements.