So I’ve had a pretty good run, career-wise. I did the follow-my-passions thing (for computer touching) and it worked out. The problem is that there are very few jobs of any social utility whatsoever to be had as a programmer in the US.
The thing I’m encountering is everyone in my social class (unless they’re only driven by money) seems to want that same thing: a prestigious, engaging & creative job that pays well, allows one to cultivate & showcase their individual talent, and has positive social utility. Unfortunately I haven’t ever actually come across one of these jobs. The closest is just people lying to themselves that their app does anything other than speedrun exploitation of marginal workers while making people in their own social class more comfortable.
When I think about social utility it makes sense to consider what things I require to live my day-to-day life, and think about what jobs are required to provide those things. Unfortunately here I run into what I think is a bourgeois mindset ingrained from birth: none of those jobs are good enough. Think about a shopkeeper, or someone sitting at the help desk at the subway station, or a picker at an Amazon warehouse. If I took one of these jobs my parents and social circle would all believe that I had literally gone insane. Objectively, every one of these jobs is necessary for contemporary society to function and the people filling them have easily contributed more social utility than my entire programming career. And yet the idea I could actually take one of those jobs runs into gigantic barriers that exist in my mind. A local political org is working to salt Amazon warehouses and this seems like a pretty easy way for me to get in. But I just can’t do it. Every time I try to articulate the idea I could work in an Amazon warehouse to one of my friends it starts to sound like a joke.
To me this indicates I have a fundamentally non-proletarian and thus anti-marxist mindset. I’ve worked jobs like this before graduating university and I know they suck. They are boring, the pay is bad, and worst of all - you get absolutely no respect. The lack of respect is what really sticks with me in my memories of those jobs, and still makes me burn with anger over a decade later.
Anyway I’m rambling but I guess my question is - does anybody relate to holding this attitude toward employment either now or at some point, and more importantly how does one overcome it?
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You don’t need to take a minimum wage job to prove your Marxism.
You are correct that there are many computer programming jobs precisely because the technology reduces labor costs by increasing relative surplus value for the firms that use it. However, it’s just a skill. You can use this skill in line with your morals. One example is the Lemmy developers who make a small amount of money from donations as they build and maintain a leftist reddit alternative. There are leftist organizations, or state institutions like local libraries, which have trash websites or back-ends that you could improve through volunteer work or taking a job if you’re lucky. Countless nonprofits you could also work for which pay the same as Subway but leverage your skills and don’t make money for Big Sandwich.
The issues you write here are a common struggle for leftists. My opinion is as long as you are not building planes for the Luftwaffe, all wage labor in capitalism is shit so just do what you can to survive while keeping your morals reasonably in check. We will not stop climate change by turning off kitchen lights. Nor will capitalism end if everyone quits their jobs.
The reason people think you’re crazy isn’t that you’re going to lose social status, it’s that life in this hell country is completely different for the PMC and the working class, the latter of whom are thrown into the grinder. Ask any Amazon picker if they’d rather have their job or yours.
I also dislike that as a programmer there are very few jobs out there that actually help people and society without having some big negative side like people being massively fired. That’s the sad state of technology and research under capitalism.
I wouldn’t have the power in me to quit my job and get one like the ones you mention that will kill me inside. Besides, I don’t think it’s really productive. We are in a domain that is still profitable to the system right now, and that gives us the benefit to live more comfortably and have more leisure time and better mental health. My opinion is that we should take advantage of this and use our remaining time and energy to learn theory, engage in activities with others, and try to change people’s minds in everyday life.
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My opinion is suck it up, take that money and start doing good things with it.
Instead of quitting your well-paying job to salt, set aside $20k to provide supplementary pay for salting. This is probably more helpful to the cause, overall.
You’re still of the working class in the sense that you survive through wage labor. That you are paid more or benefit indirectly from exploitation is usually something as a factor in why segments of the working class fail to radicalize. But you already radicalized. So, instead, figure out what you can do from your uncommon vantage. A common avenue is to treat PMC types as a piggy bank for left causes. Build an activist network among them (it doesn’t need to be properly socialist) and use it to raise money for your org or coalition projects, for example. Through this process you would gain organizing experience they could allow you to try more difficult things like actually radicalizing people in your profession and eventually using the big scary U word.
Build an activist network among them (it doesn’t need to be properly socialist) and use it to raise money for your org or coalition projects, for example
Have you tried doing this? This would depend on what type of PMC/bourgeois proletariat you are but past a certain point (investment banker, management consultant, quantitative researcher, fang coder, corporate sales, corporate lawyer, etc.) It’s largely a waste of time because of how selfish, classist, and capitalist worshipping those people are
I’ve had success every time with this, yes.
The key to subclass analysis is to use it to engage critically, not leave every person in it behind.
I recommend starting by creating a list by getting people from X industry to come to Y radical event and having them sign in (specifying industry X if more than them are coming). Tap into any existing social movements attended by people in the industry.
Once you can get a decent group started you can leverage its networks to recruit and agitate.
It takes about as much effort as any other campaign I’ve ever done.
Can I ask what your success rate is for getting people to start getting involved? I’ve tried with my well off circles for the Palestine movement and I literally managed to get 1/~50 people. And that 1 person was already a Marxist…
My initial steps have been kind of a shotgun approach where I get the word out kind of blindly and then people show. So in that case it’s either unknown or 100% depending on how you look at it. I’ve also gone the route of working with an existing org.
I guess the best info I could provide is that in one case I went to an org specifically dedicated to activism around social issues in an industry and chatted with them about collaborating on a project. About 1/3 of their members are now part of the thing I organized (as well as their original group) and are explicitly socialists advocating for Palestine and refusing to condemn Hamas whereas before they were squishy SocDems. Honestly that group now has better positions than a lot of local self-labeled socialist groups. I think it’s helpful that these people have time to read and be active whereas less privileged folks are tired as shit, so it’s good when that time and resources can be put to good use. They’re frequently bankrolling small local union actions as well.
It’s not all perfect, there have been many frustrating moments, but it’s on par with basically everything else in my experience.
Something like 80% of an army’s personnel are non-combat support, communications, logistics etc.
Take whatever fraction of your pay you can spare and help fund the union organizers.
I’ve never had a career and only had “jobs” but the only time I can remember having this type of … shame?.. about certain “types” of jobs was from middle/high school until a year or two after I dropped out of college.
It was working a few years in a grocery store that I realized that all those jobs that were described to me as unskilled, worthless and by extension those that held those positions worthless too were jobs that required skill and experience to do well. Then I felt pretty fucking stupid for having spent a chunk of my young life (up to that point) kinda looking down my nose at cashiers and grocery store stockers and warehouse workers and burger flippers… and… and… and…
A local political org is working to salt Amazon warehouses and this seems like a pretty easy way for me to get in. But I just can’t do it. Every time I try to articulate the idea I could work in an Amazon warehouse to one of my friends it starts to sound like a joke.
A terrible analogy or comparison (don’t “at” me, I’m a college business major dropout) … but its like those city people who go out to a “Dude” ranch to be a man or somebody who watched some WW2 themed movie and decides they “need” to enlist to prove themself … somehow… to… somebody? If you’re wanting to be the hero of the story, you’re already fucking up. If you’re wanting to help a group achieve their goals then there’s a chance you’ll be doing the right thing.
So, play to your strengths. “If you can’t shoot a gun, don’t volunteer to be a sharpshooter.” Want to help an org out? Figure out what you’re good at and what resources you bring to the table then go ask local orgs what they need. If they need what you can bring to the table, start there.
What social utility can programming provide? As long as you are providing labor that is creating value for the system, you are a proletariat. You don’t have to be doing the physical labor yourself, but being in tech also allows you to create positive value for society. You can work for someone & be content with that (I was not), you can try to do your own thing to create value for society (I did/do), & you can try to use your position & wealth to change society / influence the masses (I wish to).
