Therapy doesn’t fix any of the most pressing issues I have. I’d wager about 85% or more of my stress is economic or environmental in nature. My big three worries are how am I gonna afford a house by myself, how am i going to be able to retire on little money and without kids, and is the envrioment going to lose the ability to sustain human life while I’m still alive and on nothing more than a fixed income.
I don’t need to journal my thoughts and pretend the outside world doesn’t exist, I need some damn material security in my life.
The thing therapy has helped me with in regards to that is feeling okay despite it all. Being content despite not having all of our wants and needs fulfilled is a valuable skill.
Being content despite not having needs met feels like a skill thats more valuable to my boss than me. Nah im gonna get my needs met.
There’s only so much that can be done to meet one’s needs. There will always be wants and needs that go unfulfilled, it’s just the nature of being human. Being able to exist with that, without it causing you extreme distress, is a very valuable coping skill that’s lost in a lot of people.
This doesn’t mean eschew meeting your needs completely, but simply acknowledging that some may be actually impossible to fulfill right now, at least safely, and working on an actual viable plan, instead of panicking and doing whatever short-term fix seems handy.
There will always be wants and needs that go unfulfilled
That’s not what ‘needs’ means.
Im glad working on a viable plan and panicking are mutally exclusive for you, but they’re not for me. This is why my therapist started suggesting I simply stop paying attention to everything outside of my immediate daily view. My brain also failed to make itself happy through that kind of ignorance. Not to mention I couldn’t simply make that information unexists from my day to day social interactions. I was encountering at work what my therapist told me to avoid and since it was word of mouth it was less reliable than if I had just read it myself.
Actual doctors have tried, years have been spent and by the time I stopepd going id been going on about a year of weekly visits where I was no longer being taught anything new, simply checking in and making sure I was doing all the things I already learned. Copays were eating away at my actionable steps to fix the other problems in my life and I was no longer learning anything new or noticing positive behavioral change.
Sounds like a therapist that just didn’t mesh with you. If they’re just doing routine maintenance and not suggesting ways to improve either they’re not suited to your situation, or there’s something else confounding the situation.
You don’t have to completely put on blinders to be content despite being without. You can see all of the things you’re missing, or actively working towards but not at yet, and not be thrust into the middle of an emotional response. This is simply the point of my statement.
Ive been to multiple therapists, usually I switch when I get to the maintainace phase, except the last time when I just decided to save the money all together. This isn’t something that happend in isolation, and like I said last comment literal doctors have also intervened in some of these areangements. Please stop acting like you posses some truth I have yet to find. ‘Emotional response’ or not, having needs going unmet causes mental and physical duress and side effects, necessarily. No matter how happy you pretend to be about it.
I never said they didn’t. And I never said you have to be happy in the face of it. There’s a distinct difference between “content”, the word i used, and “happy”, the word you seem to hear.
Society fuckin sucks for the majority of people, I think we can all agree on that bit. And yet, a lot of people manage contentedness despite these absolute facts.
There exist things outside of our ability to control, directly or otherwise. Often, these things get in the way of our needs. You have 3 options in this case. Give up, ram into it with everything you have and fuckin hope it works, or accept it and find a way to be content despite the roadblocks.
I want to commend you for what you’re doing. It doesn’t feel good, but you must remain effective. You can’t re-align schemas through Internet comments however, don’t burn yourself out.
Hey, man, thanks for the kind words! I enjoy these kinds of conversations, I like to think I’m working towards making the world a better place, no matter how small. If one person resonates with what I’ve said, I feel accomplished.
I understand your point, and I also think a bit in this direction. But i think there may be two counterpoints.
First you beeing depressed over the status and worrying at home and online about it, is not really helping your or doing anything against your boss.
Second, as i understand it, the goal is not to get really content, but to get more control over your feelings. It is perfectly fine if zou feel sad or angry over the situation. It shows you what you want or do not want. But this doesn’t need to control your life. If you have the possibility you should definitely use your anger to give you energy for the fight for better working conditions. But if you can not, you should your feelings taking complete control over you
I think it is worth pointing out that while therapy can certainly help you manage stress better and be more content maybe, if you are truly struggling and falling further behind here in the US, no amount of therapy (which you can’t afford anyway) is going to make you stop being hungry, sleep deprived, heal severe injury or illness, or give your home back. And going without food, sleep, or housing can lead to death.
Those items are a bit trickier for sure. There’s a biological need for them and so they can be pressing. There’s a certain bare minimum that yeah, you can’t just not have. Anything past that, though, past the absolute critical for life level, is something you can learn to be content with, learn to not desire more than, and instead just be thankful for the excess above starvation that you enjoy in this moment.
What did they teach you to do to be okay with it?
Feelings of extreme loneliness. Accepting that, despite having a very real need (community, belonging, connection) not being met at the moment doesn’t mean that it ever will be, and I can actually be okay being uncomfortable, but still content.
Yeah that mentality is exactly why things are as bad as they are
What part of that mentality, exactly? Break it down for me.
Being content despite all of it.
We shouldn’t be striving to be “content” we should be livid, pissed, terrified, motivated.
Being content while the world is falling apart is madness and the more people that are “content” means more people unwilling to actually make the changes necessary to fix the problems we have.
Apathy is death.
“content” doesn’t preclude any of that.
“Content” simply means you feel as if you could live life with what you have. It doesn’t mean you can’t WANT more. It doesn’t mean you can’t hate how badly the system is bending you and others over. It’s simply a state of being that is, “at the end of the day, none of this is unbearable. I will continue living, and as such, there’s no need for an extreme emotional response.”
Drive, desire, fight… all of it can exist, and you can still maintain contentedness.
there’s no need for an extreme emotional response.
That’s the part I’m having issues with. There’s very much a need for extreme emotional response.
Idk clearly I’m not picking up what you’re putting down and I apologize for seeming so hostile. I’m just at the point of wanting to commit acts of terror because the people in charge are making protest illegal.
I just don’t see how that’s any different from “it is what it is” in the first place.
UK? Yeah that shit is scary. I am gobsmacked they’re pulling that authoritarian crap.
I’m probably full of shit but here is what I’m thinking. Some things like employers not paying enough and treating employees like shit in various ways-- that is depressing if we are totally helpless. If we can form unions and protest in effective ways, that actually get some reforms going, then it feels like maybe there is some hope.
Content isn’t the right response. Neither is giving up in despair. Being able to channel anger and frustration productively seems lots better.
If you’re lonely for a bit, or some things aren’t going great you can learn to live with that, for now while also working on fixing what you can. Spinning your wheels fretting and self-pitying doesn’t help but taking action does.
Some things will always be outside of my control.
It is probably best to find a way to accept those things. Rather than stewing about them. Because all that does is make me feel worse.
Man, I get it. I’m at that point, too. In a lot of ways society has failed all of us.
Society is also a large vessel that takes lifetimes to change. Essentially, the kind of thing one man can do barely anything about. Not that we shouldn’t try, but… Well, to quote Stephen King, “pray for water, but dig a well while you wait.”
I think the best way to describe it is, if I feel content, it’s a sense of stability within myself - a sense that I’m grounded, and going to get through. Some of my needs right now are going under-fulfilled, but that won’t be eternal. I’m uncomfortable now, but discomfort doesn’t mean I’m in a situation where I should panic and start grasping at the first possible way to fulfill my needs. Instead, I can be comfortable in my discomfort, think about what my needs actually are, and create a plan to fulfill those needs in a more healthy and sustainable manner.
That last thought is Maslow’s hierarchy in action.
True. It’s also a good formula for PTSD. When your traumas have to take a back seat to material needs, disorders develop.
What if your needs take a back seat to your trauma? That can’t be good either.
Once you’re aware of the phenom it’s a balance act, but you’re ‘balancing’ what you can afford to deprive yourself of depending on the circumstances.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
Therapist: you need to focus less on the things that are outside of your control, and come to accept the fact that there are some things you just can’t change.
Me: crying you mean some things just be what they be?
It do
That’ll be $1.000
Meh, fist-size drywall repair kits are cheaper.
$1,000
(For the US folks)
There’s a lot of evidence that modern CBT therapy just doesn’t really connect with men very well. Mainly because we don’t really tend to solve problems by “considering more gratitude” or “trying yoga at sunrise maybe?” (Was a legit suggestion when I had a therapist lol.)
Edit: yoga and exercise are awesome, and physical activity can be therapy in itself for many people! There’s some truth to the trope that some men like to hit the gym to deal with their complex feelings lol.
Men tend to want practical steps and solutions to things. And there isn’t a whole lot of practical solutions one person can try to repair the effects of an increasingly alienating society and collapsing socioeconomic structures.
Therapists can be very helpful, and by all means you should definitely try to find a good one.
But sadly when you realize a lot of your issues are circumstantial and practical though, things like “Well I’m depressed and anxious because I feel everything is out of my control, like layoffs and rent hikes.”…
…Sometimes it feels like the prevalent training and methodology seems to say “Well that sounds like a you problem.”
There’s a really good podcast about this called “It’s Not Just In Your Head”
And a YouTube guy “Dr. K” (actually a doctor btw) who runs a channel called "HealthyGamerGG.
The topic is definitely worth analysis and discussion, why therapy isn’t working for men in particular, as it’s often swept under the rug as just “Men being stubborn and toxic” or whatever, but there is a lot more at play here.
We need to make sure men are heard and cared for, before they get warped by all the “alpha grind real man” grifters that understand how they work, and use it for malicious means.
EDIT: I’m really glad this seems to have started a somewhat productive discussion! I want to clarify that I’m NOT tearing down CBT or therapy or yoga or anything!
I’m merely calling attention to certain blind spots I’ve experienced (and therapists have also been discussing) when it comes to how therapy is conducted, and how it might get better in dealing with how men tend to experience the world.
Again, therapy is great and I encourage you to try it. But I’m mainly talking about why men shy away from it, and how we need to seriously talk about how to help them before they start thinking people like Andrew Tate have their best interests at heart.
Nothing wrong with me that a million dollars or two wouldn’t fix.
One of the hosts of “It’s Not Just in Your Head” mentioned this in an early episode.
He said he’s talked to other therapists who’ve straight up wearily declared “I can only do so much to help them, but it’s astonishing how many people’s problems would go away if they just…had more money.”
It’s a lot easier to train your mindfulness when you’re not in a constantly embattled state for increasingly scarce resources against a corrupt and uncaring system, isn’t it?
There’s a point when mitigations aren’t going to fix the long term stressors that are causing so many people to snap.
Situational depression is a real fucker. I understand what you mean. I grew up in the Middle East and everything was fucked right and left, people around me were depressed because of society, because of the economy, and because their lives never get better.
I had to move our of there and start healing myself, my brain, my ability to deal with whatever life throws me.
I hope you’ve been able to heal somewhat, friend! I can hardly imagine how awful that must’ve been. I’m glad you got out.
I think another hard part of it is wanting to help. It feels so simple to help people, fix things, make it all better “if we only just…”
…and at the exact same time it feels insurmountable, especially when you need to take care of yourself and that’s its own battle.
“trying yoga at sunrise maybe?”
Shitty half assed suggestion but for real one of the original big motivations of yoga is that a lot of people struggle with meditating and “just clearing their mind”. Yoga isn’t just about physical strength and flexibility, it is also about providing a very direct physical practice to make the process of mentally reaching a meditative state easier.
I think it is a great compliment to therapy since in therapy you can talk about how best to rewire negative thought processes into positive ones and in yoga you can practice actually doing that while getting some good moderate exercise.
Oh yeah totes. Never meant to bash yoga or exercise! That was exactly my point, that it was a half baked self-help-motivational-book suggestion essentially.
Bash yoga at your own risk… very flexible people will hunt you down and offer you some healthy snacks
Haha I do Capoeira, so the Yoga folks wouldn’t have to look very far! XD
I doubt cock and ball torture would be well-received by many men.
LMAO how did I not get this. Particularly dense today. All the upvotes suddenly make sense.
LOL…wat?
©ock and
(B)all
(T)orture
Oh man, I can second HealthyGamerGG. Decent tips and aside from that also a pleasant fellow all around (at least that’s how he comes off in his vids)
Mainly because we don’t really tend to solve problems by “considering more gratitude” or “trying yoga at sunrise maybe?”
I feel like at some point all the therapists, at least Western ones, got together and decided that instead of helping men with practical advice and solutions, they would offer help that while being far less practical, would, at least hopefully, in some small way, make them feel a smidge bit better about the problems.
Will yoga at sunrise fix the issues? No. Will it help you feel better about them? That’s the hope. Because, unfortunately, a lot of issues are outside of our control, so the modern therapy approach seems to be centered on getting patients to focus more on the things within their control, like how the things outside of their control make them feel.
You’re right! This is a very pragmatic approach and I’m not bashing it.
It’s hard to articulate this properly, but if I’m bashing anything, it’s the empty corporate way that modern therapy has sometimes been co-opted by the self help industry.
“Oh your boss yells at you? Maybe try some mindfulness to let it go.”
It’s kinda sad because, from a personal experience, I’ve run into that wall where I fought the constant mindfulness battle, tried making my work stresses not bother me, knowing quitting and losing the income would be much worse, and that circle of crazy just never stopped.
But hey, it helped me hold on until I could quit, which was a practical move that seemed to solve a ton of my inner turmoil. :p
There’s a lot of evidence that modern CBT therapy just doesn’t really connect with men very well. Mainly because we don’t really tend to solve problems by “considering more gratitude” or “trying yoga at sunrise maybe?” (Was a legit suggestion when I had a therapist lol)
Source?
I’m asking because this sounds nothing like CBT that I did. I’m a woman, but it was gut-wrenching and scary to do exposure therapy. Nothing at all about yoga or gratitude… sounds more like traditional talk therapy to me.
I would give CBT a chance, honestly… I feel like you have some kind of misinformed opinion or maybe had a crappy therapist.
Edit: just for clarity, CBT is a type of talk therapy, but the stuff this person I’m replying to describes sounds more like traditional armchair therapist self-help-book Freudian therapy.
Maybe we have a slight misunderstanding about CBT? CBT I’m referring to is “Cognitive Behavioral Therapy”, not exposure therapy. I hope the exposure therapy was beneficial to you though. :)
Basic CBT I’m talking about is a talk therapy modality where the patient is trained to observe the cycle between their thoughts, feelings, and actions, and pay a bit more mindfulness to how they react to things.
I don’t wanna bash it! But my point is, sometimes men in particular are not raised to understand or differentiate their emotional feelings on a deep level, so this talk therapy alone doesn’t really give them something “actionable” to start solving the problem when you keep getting asked:
“So how does that make you feel?” “Bad?” “Why?”
It can be helpful and it certainly helped me! BUT alone, it also has a blind-spot where it’s not as helpful to the way men experience the world. Usually much more externally, and less “pondering feelings.”
I know I’m not articulating this the best way, there’s a lot of nuance, but I’m glad it’s started a productive discussion!
I’m merely saying it can be better, not trying to tear it down. :)
Toxic masculinity and autism makes it hard to open up to loved ones, let alone strangers.
It can be worth it to push through. It might just be for a sanity check. However, often, what is a huge issue to you, is far smaller to others. Once you start breaking it down, with someone who knows what they are doing, the problem ends up a lot smaller than it seemed.
It can be so worth it. Sometimes I’m stressing about this great nebulous cloud of bullshit that just seems insurmountable and existential, but then when I explain it to someone, it’s like… 3 things. And yeah, those things may legitimately be a source of stress, but knowing that they are finite and number, and probably solvable, makes daily life a lot less daunting.
So you are in favor of people taking the off ramp instead of reaching out for any kind of support because someone else might have it worse.Edit: Maybe I misread what you are telling them to push through, but it really sounds like you are minimizing their concerns with the second sentence.
I think he’s arguing in favor of therapy, not against it.
How tf did you get that out of a comment about going to therapy and getting professional help?
It can be worth it to push through. However, often, what is a huge issue to you, is far smaller to others. Once you start breaking it down, with someone who knows what they are doing, the problem ends up a lot smaller than it seemed.
This sounds a lot like “it is what it is” by recommending pushing through and then minimizing concerns. Why would they be pushing through to go to therapy just to have their concerns minimized?
Maybe I misread it.
I think the key phrase there is with someone who knows what they’re doing, ie a therapist. A lot of things people are dealing with feel insurmountable without someone who understands mental health helping you to break it down and figure out what you can change (or not). That’s an oversimplification obviously, but if it was simple nobody would need therapy.
I’m not perfect.
The few times in my life I’ve been to therapy or counseling on times at very different ages in my life for wildly different reasons, it’s interesting that every single time, it amounted to them nicely asking me to let it go. Just stop letting whatever IT is affect you. Thanks asshole. How is that a fucking career?
Better than my experiences.
Which involved one laughing at me, and telling me to stop being silly and be serious when I was being serious.
and the other one being a christnut that, in their christlike duty, decided to bilk me for a few thousand dollars before telling me I needed to go to church and submit to jesus, because being a godless heathen was why i had my problems.
edit.
Not tryin to gate keep ya or play who has the best misery, to be clear. Just sympathizing.
Where do you live? I’m asking because my experience couldn’t be more different and I’m in Germany.
I’m also a man, went to therapy and my therapist was just fantastic! She could relate to me, gave excellent advice etc., really changed my life for the better.
PS: of course I didn’t have go anything or so, just if I’d miss a session ^^ (in theory, but even 30m late to a 50m session was still fine hehe)
i genuinely hate that phrase, it’s usually used by people to get you to stop complaining about a valid issue
…or people that don’t otherwise know how to respond, but want to acknowledge your statement.
I’d say more than half the crappy situations I end up in are both outside of and beyond my control. Sometimes, you just have to ride the suck train until things improve. Therapy is a powerful tool, but it has its limits, and it’s important to know when and how it can be helpful.
I know a female supervisor that uses it daily to demean her employee’s valid concerns and needs. She was nicknamed The Witch and she has witch paraphernalia and decorations all over her office. She knows how far she can push and abuse people without raising any alarms to the executive staff.
They want you to stop complaining because they have no solution or there isn’t one. Bitching isn’t going to do any good.
I went to therapy and now I’m a girl…
Were you also a girl before therapy? If so, this isn’t that uncommon.
I went to therapy as a teenager and now, decades later, I’m a grown man. Explain that, science!
If you’re happier now then awesome!
just as long as you aren’t in a barbie world…
Oh no…
They don’t think it be like it is.
But it do.
‘So it goes’.
getting Ray Bradbury vibes from this comment
You might misremembering it, as it’s more akin to Kurt Vonegut. This phrase is frequently used in his Slaughterhouse-Five, one of my favorite pieces of fiction.
Dang, I was misremembering it. It’s been a while since I read Slaughterhouse 5
No problem, really. Even better, reading it now can bring you even better experience and understanding of these themes. I didn’t have it in my school’s curriculum and I read it in my 20s, and I don’t believe I’ve exhausted it at that time in my life. There’s something magic sense in his prose I do feel I won’t find until I have me hairs completely gray. So I find it perfectly okay to reread it and maybe find new thoughts you haven’t got before to enrich thyself. See if you can give it a chance. In some contexts it just huts different.
I have seen several therapists both individually and in a group setting, and the therapist’s approach can range from “why don’t you try to cater to everyone else’s insecurities all of the time instead of standing up for yourself in a constructive way” to actual support that can lead to change. It isn’t a perfect solution and can require trying more than one therapist to find one that actually listens and helps if you want to actually fix something instead of just someone to listen to you complain.
They were all ridiculously expensive and only one was actually helpful. Heck, the successful one ended with less frequent sessions and then ending with a plan to schedule if needed. I can see why someone who only had experience with the other approaches wouldn’t want to waste money on not resolving anything.
In my limited experience the therapists who were men actually acknowledged issues and tried to resolve them, which makes a bit of sense as therapists come from the same society where women frequently want to just be heard and men want to do things because that is how they are raised.
Go to therapist.
Therapist says it is what it is.
exactly! this is my experience… that and “you can have drugs to deal with your drug problem if you want.”… i didn’t want and glad i that’s the decision i made. it is what it is
https://openpathcollective.org/ provides a long list of therapists that work on an affordable, sliding scale. I know it’s just a meme, but if you think you would benefit in any way, please seek support for your mental health
It’s better to fix problems by ourselves than give money to therapist and pretend it’s helping.
I decided to start taking shrooms regularly. Works for me. YMMV.
I’m going to my second session in a few hours :)
After a few years in jobs where violence is expected and treated as “bad ass”, I’m finally seeing how my exposure to it has frayed my sense of self.
How did it go?
