Propaganda is flying around like crazy in this conflict and I think it’s time for our community to come together and try to separate the truth from misinformation and chaff. Similar to my last post on the al-Ahli Hospital Massacre, we’re going to go with the following format:
For top-level comments, post the claim being made as well as who made the claim (please cite as close to the original source as possible) and, if possible, the date/time that claim was made.
For other comments, please try to either prove or debunk claims using multiple sources and verifiable information.
[2023/11/11] A video first posted on X by “Open Source Intel” has been circulating that shows a supposed nurse from al-Shifa condemning Hamas and claiming that Hamas is stealing the hospital’s food, fuel, and medicine. It has since been deleted.
[2023/11/12] Video of woman claiming Hamas stole medicines from Gaza hospital ‘clearly staged’: Digital media expert
[2023/11/15] Video of ‘nurse’ denouncing Hamas occupation of Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza is fake
Still amazed IDF doesn’t seem to keep any native Arabic speakers on staff lmao
(bug for awareness)
just gonna sneak in here to say thank you @[email protected] for this thread
@[email protected] this is an amazing resource. Thank you so much for compiling this.
As far as I remember, apparently a video of helicopter gunships accidentally shooting down Israeli civilians in the concerts wasn’t showing that at all, at least according to israellycool, a Zionist website…
That being said, I don’t believe according to it that “In other words, everything about the tweet was false.”
I say this, because then why did the article writers of Y net admit it in the text self that the military pilots did confuse between Israeli civilians and Hamas fighters, until a certain point…
(context: the ‘debunker’ used the y-net article that mentioned friendly fire as a main topic, which was also used by Megatron, the original purveyor of the friendly fire claim)
I’m open to any additions to critiquing and countering this counter-claim
The evidence for that claim was more from statements made by IDF officials and soldiers IIRC
Translated by people online - translation may be unreliable
[2023/11/15] Haaretz has released a list of 1175 confirmed casualties
This list is continually updated. Per this list there are 1175 casualties (1087 from October 7th): 771 civilians, 59 police, 332 IDF, and 13 emergency services. Some number of these casualties are foreign, non-Israeli migrant workers.
Is there a pattern to how the civilians were killed? I scrolled a bit and many of them do not have a cause of death.
The numbers seem pretty solid around 750-800 Israeli civilian deaths. The question now seems to be which side fired the shots and whether they were avoidable. Some people on Hexbear have suggested it was poorly trained IDF shooting indiscriminately which caused many of the deaths, but so far that just seems to be speculation.
I don’t think there’s anything concrete as far as numbers go, but we do have an Israeli news source giving a few interesting tidbits (emphases mine):
As the pilots struggled to differentiate between terrorists and civilians, the decision was made to prioritize the immediate halt of the influx of Hamas terrorists and the potentially dangerous Gaza mobs breaching the border.
What would they be prioritizing this over? Presumably, making sure the person they’re targeting is a combatant before firing.
The initial pace of the strikes against the thousands of infiltrators was staggering, with the pilots eventually slowing down their attacks and meticulously selecting targets.
This implies a haphazard, “kill anything that moves” approach was employed at first.
Hamas terrorists deliberately played a cunning game with the helicopter pilots and special forces operatives. briefings revealed that the terrorists were advised to advance cautiously into the settlements and military outposts, to walk and not run, in order to appear like they were Israeli. This deception tactic persisted for some time until the Apache pilots realized that all constraints should be disregarded.
Constraints in this case would likely be silly little things like making sure your target isn’t a civilian before shooting.
No surprise. Israeli settlers aren’t really valued by Israel for anything other than their names and numbers in eviction proceedings.
Translated from an article by Yedioth Ahronoth that I cannot find because I do not speak Hebrew.
deleted by creator
I’ve been trying to avoid active commentary, but this is just plain silly. An MRI machine isn’t a tarp to hide weapons under. It’s an incredibly complex and dangerous piece of machinery whose operation is impacted by the presence of metals in the vicinity. The MRI magnet is on as long as the MRI is powered: it’s standard procedure to not allow metals within the room an MRI machine is in. MRIs are basically never turned off because quenching can harm the superconducting magnets (don’t ask me how, I don’t know). There are records of guns being discharged by an MRI machine and there are records of people being hit in the face when a knife is magnetized by the MRI. Out of all the places in a hospital, the MRI room is the worst place to store guns and weapons (especially explosives…), though I imagine modern flak jackets would be fine because they’re made of soft fibers.
Sources seem to suggest that MRI scans were being conducted in al-Shifa:
[2023/11/16] IDF releases video they claim shows a tunnel they uncovered at Al Shifa hospital. The interior is not shown.
[2023/11/16–17] Users in the same thread point out the tunnel’s resemblance to a septic tank [link, link, link]
[2023,11,8] IDF earlier claimed that a water reservoir at Sheikh Hamad hospital was a Hamas tunnel
[2023/11/17] Tweet, not primary source: BBC admits at least one gun is inserted behind the MRI machine between the IOF’s own video and BBC’s escorted visit