• subignition@fedia.io
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    8 months ago
    1. I don’t intend to victim blame or defend any abusers here; this shit is vile and should not be tolerated, period.

    2. From the below, it sounds like it was determined that, despite Omegle’s moderation efforts, Omegle could have done better in areas relating to age verification and matchmaking. So I’m not trying to defend or minimize Omegle’s role either, I don’t know the details of how the site worked but it sounds like this was a problem for a long time:

    the judge in A.M.’s case found last July that Omegle’s design was at fault and it was not protected by Section 230: It could have worked to prevent matches between minors and adults before sexual content was even sent, the judge said.

    1. However, I really don’t like the choice of phrasing “forced”, and I wonder whether that’s poor paraphrasing or actually taken from the lawsuit.

    Her lawsuit, filed in 2021, alleged that she met a man in his thirties on Omegle who forced her to take naked photos and videos over a three-year period. She was just 11 when it began in 2014.

    Again, to be clear, not trying to say that the victim should, or even could, have done anything differently. Victim blaming is bad. But how the hell are they saying “forced” to do something by some scumbag over the internet? What kind of conditions does a kid have to be in at home to feel like they can’t turn to their parent/guardian for help in a terrifying situation like that? How is an 11-year-old in 2014 being allowed to get into that situation in the first place, between her parents and her school?

    It seems like this victim was failed by every support system she should have been able to rely on. This is so messed up. This is exactly why we need things like sex education and Internet safety education.

    • Jamie@jamie.moe
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      8 months ago

      But how the hell are they saying “forced” to do something by some scumbag over the internet?

      There was a group from Brazil doing stuff like that and got publicized when they were arrested recently. Usually they’d coerce the minor into sending one picture, then use it as blackmail against them to give them more. They might even gaslight them to convince them that they’ll get in big trouble if they tell anyone and it’ll just get worse for them.

      I’ve seen full fledged adults taken hard by scammers and willingly giving them thousands of dollars against their own interests, and they heavily distrust and resist anyone trying to help them. I can only imagine accomplishing that with a child that lacks long term thinking skills is even more effective.

      • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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        8 months ago

        It just isn’t that simple. I’ve got four kids. At least one of them ended up watching a naked man on Omegle once. And I say this because they were in a group of friends and dared each other on, on a school trip, and they were discovered (one of them felt pretty shocked and told a teacher) and we had a big discussion with her.

        Kids do dumb shit all the time. Omegle is (was) very much known about amongst them all.

        So, even with careful parenting and a locked down internet, and policies not to have phones upstairs in your room, kids do dumb shit or find a new service that isn’t in your filter, because they’ve heard about it through their friends. I know because my wife and I carefully raise four kids and the internet is a fucking onslaught to a dopamine dependent, approval seeking teenager.

        I’m not saying “it’s all Omegle’s fault”. Everyone had a role to play. But let’s not pretend Omegle was blameless.

        • Rediphile@lemmy.ca
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          8 months ago

          It’s almost like we should focus on educating them about how to responsibly use the Internet instead of trying to censor their access to it (which as you pointed out, basically never works).

          Does anyone actually think shutting down one specific website will make a meaningful difference? Like… really? Did shutting down Napster stop piracy? Did shutting down Silk Road stop online drug sales?

              • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
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                8 months ago

                Counterpoint, I clicked on many random links, and saw many things I probably “shouldn’t have” as a kid/teen, still turned out alright I think.

                Even on Omegle in particular, after like one day, you gotta expect the dicks and move on lol

                I frequented 4chan at age 13-16 so saw pretty much everything one could see on the Internet.

                I’m not going to argue it was good or bad, but it’s not like it permanently fucked me up to the point of not being able to function as an adult later in life.

                There’s also the privacy vs protection argument here, if sites require verification that you’re over 18 or w/e that then means you have to provide some sort of identification, what happens if that site is hacked? Or bad actors use that information to blackmail you in some fashion.

                It’s a hard situation and I don’t know what the right answer truly is.

          • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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            8 months ago

            Hot take, this guy had a great childhood so he expects every single parent to hover over their kids so that they don’t see something they aren’t supposed to. Oh, and if it’s an accident that’s still your failure as a parent.

            Man, this is an awful take.

    • adrian783@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      children are incredibly easy to influence. “if you don’t do it I will find where you live and harm your family, and do not call the cops/tell your parents” is often enough threat.

      • phx@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        The common thing I’ve seen in more well -knowncases was the abuser striking up a relationship and pretending to be somebody younger, getting compromising details/photos from the victim, then threatening to release those to family/friends unless the victim follows their wishes (which often providing further sexual images/acts).

        Not sure if that might be the case with a service like Omegle, but it was essentially what happened in the Amanda Todd case and other similar cases.

    • ZzyzxRoad@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago

      God, this entire comment section is nothing but

      “I’m not victim blaming, but…”

      “personal responsibility”

      “parents should be doing blah blah blah…no, I don’t have kids.”

      The best parents in the world still can’t control what their kids are doing every second of every day. Kids will always find ways around every single thing that’s meant to restrict what they can do, see, or hear. I’m sure you never did stuff you weren’t supposed to when you were a kid…right?

      • Rediphile@lemmy.ca
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        8 months ago

        Yeah, and we could shut down the Internet all together… or we could be realistic about prevention.

        And yes, I accessed lots of ‘sensitive’ material online as a kid well before this website existed. So I find it hard to blame this specific website…websites come and go. I do however absolutely blame the creep himself since they are the one who did something wrong. Not the website.

      • JTskulk@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        I’ll do it then, I am victim-blaming. An 11 year old broke the rules and logged onto a website that she shouldn’t be on and then somehow a 30 year old guy forced her to take naked pictures. The problem wasn’t the website, it’s this child that broke the rules and doesn’t know not to do things for strangers on the internet.

          • JTskulk@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Hence why it’s easy to understand that she made this mistake. Her parents might as well sue the ISP for enabling this communication to take place.

        • whoisearth@lemmy.ca
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          8 months ago

          An 11 year old child should be expected to break rules and at times end up where they aren’t supposed to be. 30 year old fucking predators shouldn’t be taking advantage of that.

          This is like shaming a 20 year old for dressing in a gogo skirt, raping her, and then saying “she was asking for it”.

          No. She wasn’t the problem. Your depraved ass was.

          Men are fucking pigs and I don’t trust the lot of you.

          Source: me. A man and a father.

          • Rediphile@lemmy.ca
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            8 months ago

            Sure, but shutting down the website is like shutting down the club that the slutty 20 year old dressed up slutty for and went to on the night a creep raped her. Maybe she had a fake ID (if USA at least). And yeah, perhaps the club should be more careful about fake IDs. But the club didn’t rape anyone, the rapist did. And shutting down club A for club B to replace it will do nothing to prevent future rapes.

            • whoisearth@lemmy.ca
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              8 months ago

              No offense to the good people in Omegle but let’s be real, that site like many other of these “anonymous chat” sites are rife with people like that dude. If a website can’t better control the traffic then shut it down. A night club has a bouncer and to your point can check and ID and fake or not I highly doubt an 11 year old is getting in.

              Shutting down the site is a small price to pay to protect youth doing what youth are made to do which is test limits.

      • richieadler
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        8 months ago

        Thank you for adding just another reason for the myriad of pre-existing ones that convinced me of never having kids.

    • WallEx@feddit.de
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      8 months ago

      So have you heard of emotional violence or exploitation? That’s how that works over the internet. You don’t need to be in the same room to be forced to do something if you’re vulnerable.

  • Kissaki@feddit.de
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    8 months ago

    In 2022, there were 608,601 reports of child exploitation on Omegle to the nonprofit National Center for Missing and Exploited Children’s CyberTipline. Of all the sites the center tracked, only Facebook, Google, Instagram, and WhatsApp ranked higher.

    That’s a crazy high number. Especially for a live content platform which I assume can only ever have individual reports of live interactions?

  • Orbituary@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    I have a fundamental question about this case: was he there physically with her? Coercion is one thing, but the word “force” implies he was somehow in control. I am in no way defending him, but it reeks terribly of the “look what you made me do” vibe and I feel somewhat uneasy about how this played out.

    Omegle was a piece of the internet I never partook in. It never appealed to me to talk with random internet people. Perhaps I don’t understand why he had power over her.

    Edit: thanks, I everyone. I get it from a subjective position.

    • die444die@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Her lawsuit, filed in 2021, alleged that she met a man in his thirties on Omegle who forced her to take naked photos and videos over a three-year period. She was just 11 when it began in 2014.

      Not all methods of force are physical. This was an adult talking to an 11 year old. 11 year olds have in many cases not had enough life experience to understand that there are adults that will manipulate them in this way. It’s possible he got her to do things and then blackmailed her for more. Regardless of how he did it, he was an adult and she was an 11 year old child. Not acceptable no matter the circumstance.

    • johanbcn@iusearchlinux.fyi
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      8 months ago

      Perhaps I don’t understand why he had power over her.

      One can have leverage over another person by threatening to harm oneself or someone else.

      There’s been many cases in omegle of people threatening “show me your boobs or I’ll kill this pet”. If the victim complies, the agressor may continue through blackmailing.

        • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          Source: my childhood

          Jesus man, you can’t be serious. That is like the epitome of all the “I’m better than you” condescension I’ve seen so far, and I’m not even a quarter way down your profile page

            • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              That’s a pretty flimsy line of thought. You’re losing your edge, bud.

              Of course, the point is that only a narcissist would think to compare a child in this situation to themselves in an attempt to find fault, but that’s gonna go over your head because you’re just around to disagree.

              Anyway, this is just another example. I’m not gonna engage more than that

                • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  I honestly can’t tell if you’re still trolling or you really don’t get what’s wrong with what you said. It’s great. You’re an awful human being either way

    • Hillock@kbin.social
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      8 months ago

      I can only assume but the first few pictures where probably coerced and after wards she was threatened to send more or he would release them. That definitely counts as forced. She was only 11 and this thing went on for 3 years. It’s definitely not just “look what you made me do”.

      You can force someone to do something without being physically present.

        • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          Man, this comment is just fucked. Who argues that an 11 year old isn’t the victim for being black mailed?

          A internet troll, that’s who. Someone so condescending and self-righteous that they have to link that traumatic experience back to their own childhood to prove how right they are

            • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              Look, I’m not here to open this argument back up with you. Just pointing out that you’re in various posts arguing over pointless crap and asserting you’d do it better.

                • Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  Nah bud, you said it. You said you were raised right and it wouldn’t have happened to you.

                  Anyway, I’m over expecting consistency from the way you argue. You don’t really observe that anyway

    • zeppo@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      He somehow got her to get started and then threatened her, saying that she was now complicit in making illegal porn and would get in trouble.

    • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Shitty parents don’t look at internet history. Even shittier parents blame others for not educating themselves on protecting their kids.

      • die444die@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Ok but that’s still not the kids fault. It’s the adult who forced a child to send him nude photos.

        • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          I don’t disagree. But the parents should be devastated thinking “we could have done more” because it’s a few YouTube videos away from a locked down device.

      • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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        8 months ago

        Look at internet history?! That’s the first thing kids learn to clear, right before private mode and free (trial) VPN services. The methods get swapped like candy in school.

        May I gently ask if you have kids? My experience is that curious t(w)eenagers always find a way and I say this as someone who runs their own pihole, OPNsense-filtering router. The filter mobile phone networks enable is poor and by the time kids hit 13, they know every trick in the book.

        And that’s before you realise screen time restrictions doesn’t actually work fully on iOS.

        • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          I’m a network administrator. It’s easy. Do you homework. Watch a YouTube video or something ffs.

          • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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            8 months ago

            It’s not easy. Do you have teenage kids?

            I’ve redirected DNS ports. I’m subscribed to an up to date set of filters. I’ve got screen time set up on phones and the kids have non-admin accounts on laptops. But it doesn’t matter.

            It doesn’t matter because your kids will attend school. They will meet kids with unrestricted internet access. They will be sent shit in the 100 WhatsApp groups they are in, 40 of which have formed just this week (the old 40 groups?! Awmahgawd you’re not part of the old 40 groups are you? That was so last week!!). Snapchat, Facebook, TikTok, Instagram is FULL of shit you don’t want your kids to see. And you can refuse these for your kids - we were the last hold out amongst their class to give in to some of them, (although dammit I’m dying on the hill of Instagram resistance - they can install that shit when they’re 18; it’s like liquid self-loathing, injected straight into their veins).

            Are you refusing your kids to attend that sleep over? I mean, Linda is a nice girl, but Rebecca’s parents couldn’t give a shit and she’ll be there too. Linda’s parents care, but what will Rebecca bring? Oh great, theyve been on Omegle and now I have to speak to my daughter about that hairy, sweaty naked man masturbating in front of them for 2 seconds before Linda and my daughter disconnected. I mean Rebecca thought it was hilarious, of course.

            You cannot lock the world down enough that your kids are shielded. All you can do is try to raise them well, to recognise danger and to stand up for themselves.

            But that means they’ll do dumb stuff and have some shocks along the way … and the same is true for the parents.

            I’m all for Omegle’s right to exist. But for heaven sake there were 10 things they could have done to make it safer for kids.

            • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              I have clients who try to break free, yes.

              No one can control devices that aren’t under their control, so in that case there’s nothing a parent can do and I wouldn’t place blame on them. It’s the other parents fault.

              • Reyali@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                Who are you arguing is to blame now? What other parents?

                • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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                  8 months ago

                  Did you read the comment I was commenting on? Probably not. Probably just here to complain because you disagree with me. Blocked. 😘

  • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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    8 months ago

    I’m really confused am I supposed to have heard of this website apparently everybody haves been using it for over a decade and I feel like I’m from a parallel universe. What the hell is this website?

    • kadu@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Omegle was super popular worldwide, it’s one of the “first generation” internet social platforms, back from the age when people got really impressed by the possibilities of the web.

      Basically, Omegle is a platform where you chat with random people using your webcam. It’s like a Google Meet or Skype call, but the website randomly assigns you to somebody else, and you can choose to skip and move on to the next person as soon as you wish.

      So you can be browsing and suddenly you’re talking to a Brazilian guitar player, and then a maths professor, and then two shy teenagers screaming, and then a dude in a Star Wars costume, and so on.

      As you might imagine upon hearing the phrase “random people with their webcams turned on” Omegle was a place filled, and I do mean filled, with naked people. Mostly men. The conversations would start with the camera turned on by default, meaning you’d be flashed with a dick before even being able to react.

      It’s also infamous for a lot of child porn.

  • JasonHears@feddit.nl
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    8 months ago

    When I was a kid I dialed random numbers and made prank calls to strangers I didn’t know.

  • dasgoat@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Everyone jokes about all the wild shit that happened on Omegle, but all that shit was never ‘ok’.

    Itt: sad and angry millennials who want to see an endless barrage of men jacking off

  • cryptix@discuss.tchncs.de
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    8 months ago

    Sad to see internet getting regulated. At this pace there would be requirements to link all accounts , everything with government identification documents. Oh its already happening slowly…

    Next thing you know there is no more partial anonymous sites and no one can do it without major legal challenges.

    • deweydecibel@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      That’s not what this is about. Omegle wasn’t following the regulations we already have, and therefore didn’t get the benefits of protection the other sites do:

      In the US, social platforms are often protected by Section 230, a broad act that shields them from liability for the content their users post. But the judge in A.M.’s case found last July that Omegle’s design was at fault and it was not protected by Section 230: It could have worked to prevent matches between minors and adults before sexual content was even sent, the judge said.

  • Majestic@lemmy.ml
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    8 months ago

    Disgusting that the shutdown note tried to play off their serious issues with grooming and sexual abuse and claim they did a lot. Fuck that asshole.

    Edit: Uh oh I’m being downvoted by his fan boys. The article (and successful lawsuit) say’s exactly what I’m saying and anyone who at scale enables mass sexual abuse of children is an asshole. Omegle had no other uses for most of its existence, hypotheticals sure but as the article mentions in practice it was overwhelmingly full of naked men trying to find women and children to interact with sexually. The site runner was flagrantly negligent.

    Gosh I love certain types, you’ll rightly jump on a pastor who looked the other way for sexual abuse happening in his church as being responsible, yet a guy who runs a big website for years full of abuse is taken at his word as a sweet, innocent, helpless, benevolent advocate for a better web because he talks right. (Never mind he deliberately obfuscated the horrors happening on his website with his closing statement which people here ate up. It takes a lot to lose safe harbor)

    • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago
      1. The design of the website clearly had serious issues. As example, the matchmaking should have been massively reworked.

      2. They can’t account for people lying about their age. She started using the platform at 11. I’d be curious to know what profile info she did enter, and what age that displayed her as.

      3. As a child, ultimately her parents are responsible. They should be held accountable for putting their child in danger.

      4. The groomer was a predator, same as if lurking on the playground. They must be charged to the maximum possible.

  • seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org
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    8 months ago

    That’s nuts! I thought that Omegle was text only. I had no idea that they paired you with people on video. WTF thought that was a good idea?!?