Now that Bandcamp has had huge layoffs, what about an opensource, Fediverse-friendly replacement? What can a FOSS product bring to the community and do better than Bandcamp?
- Discoverability?
- Broader selection of payments platforms? Direct transfer to avoid processors? (I’m ignorant about the processing system, plus international considerations)
- Ease of spinning up (SaaS?)
- Content deliverability (on the fly transcode from sourced FLAC or WAVs? Rich video/multi track audio?)
Average fediverse user seeing a platform undergo changes they dislike:
An artist posting on LinkedIn is what inspired my post. But I suppose a for-profit private company is probably the solution to it.
“Hey why don’t we just copy a website that has 800k daily visitors?”
How many daily users on twitter or reddit?
We have viable alternatives for those, PeerTube for (opt in) distributed fedi-hosting large media files as well. I don’t see what technical or scalability reasons there are against a band camp replacement.
Don’t you understand? Only a for-profit, privately held (or even better, publicly traded!) company can save us!
It seems you’re being sarcastic, but there’s some truth to it. The fediverse, to me, isn’t primarily about saving “us”. It’s about people saving themselves. If everybody saves themselves, “we” are saved.
For me the most important criterias are:
- ownership: I buy, I get to download (re-download) the files and use then how ever I please
- astists get a fair share: I want to maximize the share of the money I’ve spent going to the artists, and I would like the platform to be transparent, showing me with each purchase how much goes to the artitst for creating more art (if self-hosted by the artist herself/himself, this cost is then deduced)
I personally don’t care for streaming.
I would challenge “unlimited” re-download in a FOSS market. This puts the long-term hosting on the market, vs the user, and is a challenge for current platforms. Perhaps re-download for a time, and of course DRM free is the key.
Man, it’s like the good old days of buying physical media. You lose or scratch your CD, you don’t get a new one for free.
Yeah, I feel like there needs to be a solution to this. Thankfully, artists don’t generally have hugely enormous catalogs that would take up terabytes of space (my entire collection is less than 400GB, which is many, many times larger than any single recording artists catalog, even the Beatles).
One rub I have with limited downloads is that memory of broken CDs. I bought a mobile app that is about $200 and they limit the number of times you can request are-download before you have to buy another license and I think it’s messed up. I’ve had to store that APK on multiple flash drives, off-site, etc.
I would challenge your definition of streaming. I host all my own music and I stream it all the time via Airsonic-advanced (though it does get cached - and it’s constantly downloading new podcast episodes). For me it’s just the level of accessibility I consider as “streaming”.
criterias
Like ‘email’, this noun doesn’t need an ‘s’.
Right about criteria, wrong about emails.
Funkwhale is the fedi alternative for music. You should go post your feature list onto their forum.
I just took a look at faircamp, it seems nice too.
Dogmazic.net is also a music platform (centralised) made with ampache.
Yes! I was wondering how Funkwhale could be leveraged here.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I think a fedi-connected, self-hosted Bandcamp alternative would be huge for discoverability and helping fans keep tabs on new releases, tour dates, etc… As a musician it’d be great to be able to have fans be alerted right away when you post a new track or tour date, and as a fan it’d be awesome to be able to follow artists that you like from other fedi-compatible platforms.
I’m not a web dev myself so I don’t really know for sure, but I think the biggest challenge is probably not even content delivery but keeping track of ownership/library. It’s really nice that you can log into Bandcamp and access a library of all of the albums/songs that you’ve previously bought, and I’m not sure how something like that could be emulated in a federated way. It might be possible, I just don’t know how!
Also it’d be nice to be able to stream your library, and when your library is distributed across multiple federated servers I don’t know if that becomes more difficult to implement.
Still, I’m with you. I’d love to see a federated alternative to Bandcamp, even if it takes some years to reach maturity or feature parity.
Huge for discoverability? Mate, googling for shit that’s on Lemmy sucks. Decentralization isn’t the answer to everything.
Indeed, discoverability is the largest problem for people in the Fediverse and there doesn’t seem to be a simple solution for it.
Perhaps what’s needed is a charitable, non-profit foundation (properly registered) whose sole purpose is to give artists an opt-in place to register their social links, samples, etc. Then the content can be on the Fediverse in various forms (depending on medium and artist desires) but where catalogues can be easily scanned and followed.
Or it could simply be decentralized in the sense thatb producers could take care of online distribution themselves instead of relying on third party services, or it’s perfectly fine to have centralized services for some things and it’s normal to see some of those services come and go.
The issue is “discoverability”. Producers “taking care of online distribution themselves” are dealing with, you know, the very problem that they are not discoverable. Unless they’re on a third-party service, of course.
A commercial centralized discoverability service would enshittify REALLY quickly because of the profit motive. First they’d make everything nice for both listers and consumers. Make themselves indispensable to listers. Then lock the listers into an abusive relationship with no viable means out. (Kind of like bandcamp, come to think of it!) And once they’ve squeezed every last ounce out of the listers, the consumers get the screws next since there’s no viable option for them to escape to.
A non-profit foundation has no profit motive (by definition) so has no incentive whatsoever to enshittify.
Or, you know, the music creators could seize the means of distribution and take care of it themselves… Again, discoverability for anything that’s decentralized has yet to be proven better than a centralized solution. I never search answers to issues on Lemmy, I search on Reddit or Steam forums (for game issues). I don’t go on Google to look for new music, I go on Spotify.
Anyway, what’s the advantage for the artists exactly? They need to trust Sir_poop_up_my_butt with their music on their server and hope that they don’t just go offline at some point rendering their music inaccessible just like the content of some instances just disappeared because people got bored with Lemmy and hosting their instance?
The. Advantage. Is. Discoverability.
If you can’t figure out from there what the issue is, you’re on your own Sparky. Maybe talk to an artist struggling with the current system and tell them they just have to “take care of it themselves”. I’d advise not saying it in person, though, or you’ll wind up getting … ah … bruised. Slightly. Ever so slightly.
And as I said multiple times, discoverability sucks in a decentralized service because searching for things is nigh impossible.
I think a better solution to the current default model here would be splitting this up.
Give the artists a service where they provide their music, nothing else. They just upload the files, metadata, pricing. Only the technical side of things. Then another service is for the end user to actually listen to the music, but instead of having that content on the end-user service they only connect to the artist platform. For this to work there needs to be a default hub to which every artist service is automatically federated. (On that topic, why is it so hard to just federate entire instances everywhere in the fediverse, I get the moderation workload would be insane but it really works against the idea of decentralization)
Also another problem entirely is dealing with the payment providers, afaik they really don’t play ball with tiny platforms so getting support for those into the service would probably be a pain
Well it’s currently quite new and immature. I’ve said for a while that a decent system for searching the fediverse would be search engines maintaining their own instances purely for indexing purposes. They would retrieve posts via default federation, and if an instance wants to opt out of a given search engine, it’s as simple as defederating from that instance. They would also ideally provide links that users can open on their home instances.
This is more a scale and mainstreaming issue than a federation issue. Once the fediverse is big enough major search engines will have to adapt or be left behind.
One thing that most reddit alumni won’t care about, but one of the nicest things about doing it decentralized is censorship resistance.
Bandcamp at some point decided that the political views of the artists on their platform are a reason to get rid of some artists.
You might not see a problem since you agree with bandcamp’s politics, but companies change their politics on a dime when it becomes useful to do so.
One problem with open source commercial sites is you’re typically going to need business partners to handle credit card transactions.
What political views did they censor?
They took down tim pools music, and recently I went to buy some mp3s of a guy who opposes covid mandates and he was banned too.
Again, lots of folks might disagree with both those people, but when it comes to shit like this you are always next.
https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-bandcamp-removes-timcast-five-times-august-from-platform
Dim Tool makes music? That’s hilarious. Anyway I don’t have a problem with platforms removing COVID misinformation.
Does saying a false thing about COVID mean that everything you’ve ever said can now be banned everywhere forever?
Since not every one of the guys songs were about COVID, but they were all taken down.
Does this apply to disinformation like “If you get the vaccine you won’t get COVID”? How about “If you get the vaccine you won’t spread COVID to others”?
Who was going around saying those two things specifically? That sounds like either a strawman or someone misunderstanding how vaccines work, rather than deliberately spreading bad information a la Tim Pool. All respected medical professionals were saying, repeatedly, that you can still get and spread COVID after getting the vaccine, but your chances for both are lower. Also you’re likely to have a milder case after getting the vaccine, if you do end up getting COVID.
This whole things sounds like you’re wrapped up in conservative talking points.
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-2021-video-saying-vaccinations-prevent-covid-resurfaces-1726900
I’ll just assume this doesn’t count so I won’t bother finding those clips of Fauci, Wallinsky and countless other officials.
Yo I’m not going to defend something dumb that Biden said, but he’s not a medical professional – he was trying to sell people on vaccines. You can find me the clip of Fauci saying that if you want. Fauci also had really poor messaging about masks at the beginning of the pandemic, so I don’t fully doubt that he said something stupid about vaccines.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, because you’re making a ton of sense. It’s not about Tim Pool, who is a dumb incel POS. It’s about the HUGE dangers of giving a company unilateral power to ban someone based solely on speech.
What if Bandcamp’s new owners are more like Facebook? They could ban work that promotes women’s rights and abortion access, which is exactly what Facebook has done.
What if Bandcamp’s new owners (or the owners after them) are more like Twitter? They could ban antifascist activists or journalists.
It truly doesn’t matter how you feel about one person. It matters how you feel about principles.
At the end of the day, what you’re talking about is exactly right.
It feels like a win if people you don’t like get silenced, but it’s a two sided sword that rarely ends up back in the scabbard without tasting friendly blood – as you’ve shown.
Been using self-hosted, static website builder https://simonrepp.com/faircamp/ with satisfying results here
Take a look at this project started with many of those goals in mind: https://code.communitymedia.network/MountainTownTechnology/aural_isle
Sounds good, tho they’re not finished yet, hope it works out for them.
Has there been any purchasable content in the Fediverse so far?
Good question, I don’t know. I know I’ve seen people selling things in Mastodon but that’s been my extent of experience.
Do you know this: https://radiofreefedi.net/
Excellent link, thanks!
All of these ideas are great and all but at the end of the day I will be forced to use what ever the scene I am into decides is best and therefore I can find the biggest selection of music to buy.
Currently band camp is the defacto for most releases (except for some idiotic vinyl only bullshit) within the scene I am into, but even if a great alternative is made if they don’t start selling the music I want on there then it’ll be impossible for me to use.
I think as much effort to expose a band camp alternative to artists is needed as there is needed to create the thing so people and artists can come together in said place.
Time to go back to limewire
Perhaps some sort of collectively owned service.
Or a non profit like Wikipedia that all it does is host and sell music.
Whatever it is needs to be resistant to the standard shifty capitalism problems. It should focus on providing a good service and making enough money to support itself. Not infinite profits forever.
A shame this is now defunct.
