Western Marxists: we need to organise the working class
Western Marxists when an opportunity to organise appears: damn, that working class too lib for me
Sometimes USA MLs sound too much like Trotskyists, seeking only to chronicle the revolution or lack thereof from afar, and to feel smug about it when proven right. It’s a country-wide protest with millions of people, you don’t get many opportunities like that to squander.
The vanguard party can try and steer these spontaneous movements (which are deeply linked with the ICE protests) towards revolution, or it can sit idly by and watch it get co-opted. Thankfully FRSO and PSL are not boycotting this one.
I’m sorry to double tap but I’m like doubled over laughing on my run at the concept of someone going “keh, the Trotskyists would never think of handing out newspapers at a liberal demonstration” you are physically killing me 😭😭😭 what even is this site
Most trots I know do your exact pipeline of not preparing properly for contact with the masses, being shocked at how reactionary people can be, not doing self-criticism on preparation and methods of agitation, and deciding that the revolution is doomed because the masses are ignorant (unlike them, the smart Marxists). It’s idealism.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch06.htm
I would understand if an org decided that participating in this or that protest was not worth the effort for some material condition. You, however, are just abstaining from organising and encouraging others to do the same.
Look, I’m not going to explain basic logic to you, because it looks like you have decided not to confront the history of the orgs you are telling me to join. Fortunately I actually can’t, I am lying about being in America still. If I was, though, you wouldn’t have a good point. Coming up with an effective theory of action is a prerequisite for anything. Clearly somebody hasn’t read their Lenin.
Do you get off on pretending to be knowledgable online? Go away and read about some of the things I corrected you on. No spoon feeding for you.
Coming up with an effective theory of action is a prerequisite for anything.
And using protests and wider non-communist upheavals as agitation is not an effective theory of action? There’s an economy of effort, sure, but you’re not presenting any alternatives here.
Clearly somebody hasn’t read their Lenin.
One of the most basic tenants of ML theory is the organisation of a vanguard party that will symbiotically support and lead spontaneous working class struggles through agitation, propaganda and building worker organisations until the dominant class can no longer exercise power. What part of that are you even close to advocating?
Sometimes USA MLs sound too much like Trotskyists
You mean like many of the orgs showing up to this actually are? Who do you think Brian Becker (PSL) and Kshama Sawant (SAlt) are? As for the FRSO I already mentioned in another comment, their leadership picks and chooses when to use their congressional connections to get student protestors out of hot water while the prisoners they used as mascots languish for years. All of these orgs are open to people who busted down doors in night raids in Iraq. I know this really hard for you guys to understand, but to people with a functioning friend-enemy distinction, Mike Prysner is as bad as a “repentant” IDF soldier joining the group. America maintains multiple fronts of genocide and asking for more treats - sorry I mean New Deal benefits - nonviolently shows you don’t even consider your complicity an issue.
You really thought you did something. I did not realize the jokes about PSL members not realizing it was a Trotskyist org were so on point, but you’re probably just an online cheerleader anyways. Maybe it’s time to stop assuming everyone who knows more than you is on a secret mission to bum you out for the sake of petty sadism. I wasted time on this during the last liberal protests, and so will you if you didn’t learn from that or simply failed to take note before.
I kind of feel bad for people like you. I mean, you just don’t do it the way I do. I randomly open up CPUSA live streams on Trump’s inauguration day to see them organizing with Amy Klobuchar. Literally, on their live stream, bragging to me about Amy Klobuchar, the stapler throwing maniac prosecutor who knowingly sent an innocent man to his death helping them out. Where the hell would you even get this information otherwise? You’ll ignore it anyways I bet.
You really thought you did something.
My sibling in Christ, I’m not nor have I ever been physically anywhere near the United States. Join an org or continue your lone crusade for Marxist purity, just don’t drag me into your hellscape.
What are you, Ian Miles Cheong? Get something real to care about. You must be some other variety of Anglo. I am not your sibling in Christ, perhaps you can find some of them among these hordes of liberal protestant atheoids.
You must be some other variety of Anglo.
Erm, wrong again? It’s not even that hard to guess my nationality lol
Anyways, give me something real to care about. What are Marxists in the USA actually supposed to be doing instead of trying to use these protests for agitation?
Only an Australian, Euro, or something of that variety would bother with this. You get attached to the most flippant remarks and skirt around the substantive things I have said to you. Goodbye!
Your flippant remarks are the ones I find worthy of response. The rest is just the typical excuse hunt to not join any org because they’re bad, unlike my imaginary org which is good.
I would actually like an exposé on all the failings of these USA parties, would probably even agree with many criticisms. But that’s neither an excuse to do nothing nor related to my point that abstaining from liberal-leaning anti-estabilshment protests like this is a wasted opportunity for the sake of purity.
Only an Australian, Euro, or something of that variety would bother with this.
You managed to get every wrong continent. I’m impressed. Why is it you assume I’m from a white-majority country by default?
One might point out that millions of americans already protested - BLM protests werent that long ago (trump was ALSO president), made a gazillion jokes about every MAGA getting their face ate by leopards, insulted every inch of trumps body, read every liberal pamphlet, watched every “anti-authoritarian” media, boycotted every the bad company du jour, clapped back with righteous fervour at every thanksgiving dinner, waited years for every election small and big, placed their hope in every saviour of democracy and harm reduction candidate - and it still came to this point.
Protesting the liberal way clearly is not working. So what is to be done?
shitlibs really think inflatable frog suits are gonna defeat fascism
please xi nuke us already i can’t anymore
Multiple nukes on the imperial core will have positive reverberations across the world
Posadists been knew this
Protests are basically just propaganda done with mass mobilization, it’s a material demonstration to the other people on their side that they aren’t alone in their frustrations.
That’s kinda it, though.
Isn’t it the same theory as Mormons going on missions? The Mormons know that they aren’t going to convert anybody, but the act of doing it solidifies their faith and builds camaraderie with others who also are on the mission.
Same too here I would think - by participating in the protest, the protestor solidifies his political convictions (as it were) and feels like he is part of a larger whole when he looks around and sees the other protestors. One would hope that they understand their protests aren’t going to accomplish anything politically tangible - that they aren’t saying “just one more protest, trust me bro, one more protest.”
If we dilute the facism one sextillion to one it becomes anti-fascism.
Problem is, its not getting dilluted. Its being concentrated and nurtured.
Dillution would be keeping it small, drowning it in neutral solution. And if no neutral solution is available, killing it off until its statistically insignificant.
I know, I was just trying to make a homeopathy joke.
Homeopaths are claiming their cures gather into one place a large number of people dissatisfied with the state of the world but perhaps lacking the language, theory, or organization to conceptualize or do anything about it, therefore it is the duty of principled MLs to get among this gathering and begin to provide these things, as appropriate to their audience?
But sarcasm aside, these no kings protests are ripe for agitating about local, national, and global issues with people who may just know they’re unhappy. “This is much more than Trump exceeding authority, they want to send your children to go kill Venezuelans’ children, and we’re all letting them! What is to be done?”
Might as well go organize a retirement home. How was your experience?
Got a few people mad about a local issue they didn’t show up mad about. It’s not global revolution now, but it was better than sitting on my ass
