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Is Marylin Manson forbidden due to the sexual assault accusations?
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all approach to dealing with problematic artists, and I feel it’s up to individuals to decide where their threshold is.
I’m also wary of the whole “separate the art from the artist” approach: I think that should be a conversation rather than a rule. Art isn’t created in a void and it’s important to consider the artist’s intent when evaluating their work: for example I will never consider that White Power music (urgh) has artistic value outside its racist environment.
Some industrial artists really toe that line for me and while I recognise they have a place in the history of the genre, I will have nothing to do with them.
Coming back to Manson: I don’t have an issue with his music being posted here. However I think it’s important to listen to people if they have a different view, and as moderators I believe we should prioritise building a community that makes people feel welcome and safe over a being a completionist source of art and music.
CW: mention of abuse
If I see a bunch of posts about Manson I might leave comments on them pointing out how he treats women and excuses his abuse by pretending it’s BDSM or kink.
If we see any posts that trigger bad faith arguments, brigading or espousing attitudes we have decided we will not tolerate in this community then that’s the point I will step in and moderate.
Oh absolutely. The suggestion of separating art from the artist was not to excuse that sort of thing in any way. That sort of art precisely cannot be separated from the artist. It’s more propaganda than art at that point.
My specific intent with pointing out Lineham. Was that often art is not just the fruit of a single person. If the art itself wasn’t made with bigoted intent, punching down Etc. Then it’s dead to me for sure. But should we retroactively punish anyone who ever worked with someone who eventually gets exposed as a bad person? If they choose to continue to work with and enable them, absolutely. Otherwise no, unless they’re tied to the offense themselves.
I absolutely agree 😊 and I didn’t intend for my comment about separating art from the artist to be a counterpoint to yours. I meant it as an addition to your point.
Oh no worries I tend to get a bit in my own head and autistic sometimes. Not wording things clearly. You know, the whole it sounded fine in my head LOL and that may have been the problem situation. Because yeah as a practically stereotypical anarchist anti-authoritarian goth near 50 years old. I’d never intentionally apologize or enable that shit. Because after all everyone wants a little respect.
I don’t think there’s a one-size-fits-all approach to dealing with problematic artists, and I feel it’s up to individuals to decide where their threshold is.
I’m also wary of the whole “separate the art from the artist” approach: I think that should be a conversation rather than a rule. Art isn’t created in a void and it’s important to consider the artist’s intent when evaluating their work: for example I will never consider that White Power music (urgh) has artistic value outside its racist environment.
Some industrial artists really toe that line for me and while I recognise they have a place in the history of the genre, I will have nothing to do with them.
Coming back to Manson: I don’t have an issue with his music being posted here. However I think it’s important to listen to people if they have a different view, and as moderators I believe we should prioritise building a community that makes people feel welcome and safe over a being a completionist source of art and music.
CW: mention of abuse
If I see a bunch of posts about Manson I might leave comments on them pointing out how he treats women and excuses his abuse by pretending it’s BDSM or kink.
If we see any posts that trigger bad faith arguments, brigading or espousing attitudes we have decided we will not tolerate in this community then that’s the point I will step in and moderate.
Oh absolutely. The suggestion of separating art from the artist was not to excuse that sort of thing in any way. That sort of art precisely cannot be separated from the artist. It’s more propaganda than art at that point.
My specific intent with pointing out Lineham. Was that often art is not just the fruit of a single person. If the art itself wasn’t made with bigoted intent, punching down Etc. Then it’s dead to me for sure. But should we retroactively punish anyone who ever worked with someone who eventually gets exposed as a bad person? If they choose to continue to work with and enable them, absolutely. Otherwise no, unless they’re tied to the offense themselves.
I absolutely agree 😊 and I didn’t intend for my comment about separating art from the artist to be a counterpoint to yours. I meant it as an addition to your point.
Oh no worries I tend to get a bit in my own head and autistic sometimes. Not wording things clearly. You know, the whole it sounded fine in my head LOL and that may have been the problem situation. Because yeah as a practically stereotypical anarchist anti-authoritarian goth near 50 years old. I’d never intentionally apologize or enable that shit. Because after all everyone wants a little respect.
Boyd Rice comes to mind
Agreed. My intention is to post a song that I like and to entertain others.