The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.

An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.

  • Ejh3k@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    At what point do you consider something not an animal? Is it a size consideration? Like, you’d eat a hummingbird but not a chicken? Warm versus cold blooded? Is it vertebrae versus endoskeleton? Would you eat ants and crickets?

    Because I get the whole no animal by products, but fermented foods are animal by products. Most breads have yeasts in it, those are animals. Beer and wine, same.

    • Nora@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      This is a completely different topic but okay.

      Since you want specifics, veganism isn’t actually about animals, its about sentient beings. I wouldn’t eat a cow or a dog or a human, because they each have the capacity to suffer and the desire to live. Anything that has this capacity is off the table for vegans. Even bugs, while obviously being less sentient than a cow or human, still demonstrate this in some capacity. So no, I just eat plants and fungi. Technically I could eat a jellyfish or even an oyster (although vegans debate it), since this capacity has not been demonstrated by them. Why would I harm others for my own pleasure/sustenance when there is an alternative, especially an alternative that is cheaper, healthier, and far more sustainable?

      Yeast is a fungus by the way.

      • such_lettuce7970@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Why would I harm others for my own pleasure/sustenance when there is an alternative…?

        This, for me, has always been the very simple point and it pains me how many people just don’t get it.

        • Nora@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          And? That’s one organizations definition, and the reason they say “all animals” is not because they give jellyfish moral value, but because most nonvegans only respect the rights of humans and a few animals like dogs and cats. So we say “all animals” to generally say we are being morally consistent. Jellyfish and oysters just happen to be edge cases of animals existing without sentience.

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            Jellyfish and oysters just happen to be edge cases of animals existing without sentience.

            you can’t prove this.

            • Nora@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              well they don’t have fucking brains lol. why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move? it would be a waste of energy. an oyster’s nervous system is about as complex as your finger…

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                why would an oyster evolve the capacity to suffer and fear and desire to live when they literally don’t control where they move?

                there is no proof any nonhuman animal has a “desire to live” because there isn’t proof they understand personal mortality.

                as for whether they have the capacity to suffer, which is all that sentience really seems to require, you can’t prove that they don’t have the capacity to suffer because you can’t prove a negative. the best you can say is that you don’t think there is enough evidence to support a claim that they ARE sentient.

                • Nora@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  if you saw a human from a tribe who spoke a language you would never understand, how do you know they feel pain and want to live? if you kick a dog, how do you know the dog didn’t enjoy it? maybe people who are asleep dont feel pain or want to live. lets just eat people in comas, or who speak other languages, and lets beat dogs because its so unclear whether they like it or not

                  Animals must just run from danger because the wind pushes them that way. Wonder why dogs wag their tails when they see humans. Strange. Nah no proof they have desires or fears

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 year ago

                    Animals must just run from danger because the wind pushes them that way. Wonder why dogs wag their tails when they see humans. Strange. Nah no proof they have desires or fears

                    none of this is proof they understand personal mortality, which is the crux if this disagreement.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 year ago

                    maybe sentience or wanting to live aren’t metrics we should use as the basis of our morality.

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            the reason they say “all animals” is not because they give jellyfish moral value

            prove this. please find me any proof this is true.

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                this is anecdotal, and you’ve already said you don’t agree with the vegan society, so i don’t see any reason to believe your interpretation of their very explicit claim over what they actually say.

                • Nora@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  i didnt say i don’t agree with them. I’m saying your are overanalyzing the definition. this whole argument is opinion, everything is going to be anecdotal…

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 year ago

                    i’m reading the words they wrote. you’re saying “they didn’t mean the words they wrote”