Hector Martin (@[email protected])
social.treehouse.systems
Behold, a Linux maintainer openly admitting to attempting to sabotage the entire Rust for Linux project: https://lwn.net/ml/all/[email protected]/ **Edit for the Reddit peanut gallery: The reason this is sabotaging the entire R4L project is that DMA abstractions are critical for 99% of drivers, and without them, the R4L project is dead in its tracks. Christoph is fundamentally opposed to the goals and technical plan behind R4L, and offers no viable technical alternatives. If his demands are met, the R4L project is effectively dead with no way out, and that is what he wants. This is the dictionary definition of sabotage.** The good news is this doesn't affect drm/asahi, our GPU driver. The bad news is it does affect all the *other* drivers we're (re)writing in Rust, two so far with a third one coming. Another choice quote, calling R4L "cancer": https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/[email protected]/ (**R4L is the "cross-language codebase" he mentions, it's the whole point of R4L, and what he calls cancer. He's clarifying Rust itself isn't cancer, R4L is. Which is just as bad.**) Personally, I would consider this grounds for removal of Christoph from the Linux project on Code of Conduct violation grounds, but sadly I doubt much will happen other than draining a lot of people's energy and will to continue the project until Linus says "fuck you" or something. As for how to move forward, if I were one of the Rust maintainers, I would just merge the patch (which does *not* touch code formally maintained by the dissenter). Either Linus takes the pull, and whatever Christoph says is irrelevant, or he doesn't, and R4L dies. Everything else is a waste of everyone's time and energy. Edit: Sent in my 2 cents: https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/[email protected]/T/#m1944b6d485070970e359bbc7baa71b04c86a30af

Behold, a Linux maintainer openly admitting to attempting to sabotage the entire Rust for Linux project:

https://lwn.net/ml/all/[email protected]/

The good news is this doesn’t affect drm/asahi, our GPU driver. The bad news is it does affect all the other drivers we’re (re)writing in Rust, two so far with a third one coming.

Another choice quote, calling R4L “cancer”: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/[email protected]/

Personally, I would consider this grounds for removal of Christoph from the Linux project on Code of Conduct violation grounds, but sadly I doubt much will happen other than draining a lot of people’s energy and will to continue the project until Linus says “fuck you” or something.

As for how to move forward, if I were one of the Rust maintainers, I would just merge the patch (which does not touch code formally maintained by the dissenter). Either Linus takes the pull, and whatever Christoph says is irrelevant, or he doesn’t, and R4L dies. Everything else is a waste of everyone’s time and energy.

Edit: Sent in my 2 cents: https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/[email protected]/T/#m1944b6d485070970e359bbc7baa71b04c86a30af

  • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
    1·
    20 hours ago
    I'll put this into spoilers to reduce clutter for the others, it's a big wall of metadiscussion.

    I am not a programmer. … I’m a random with a chimp avatar. … It’s just that [Hellwig] prioritises consistency (for the sake of maintainability)…

    Pick a side and stick to it.

    There’s no “two sides” here. I’m transparently saying that what I say should not be trusted, for those two reasons (1. not a programmer, 2. not in charge of this), and I’m still voicing my opinion on this matter, while focusing on other aspects of the discussion. Is this clear now?

    Note: one of those two reasons likely apply to everyone else here.

    You seem very keen to endorse Hellwig’s arguments

    If anything I could be blamed for the exact opposite - endorsing R4L. You don’t even need to read this comment to see it, the comment that you’re replying to is enough: “And if Hellwig cannot be convinced, the leadership can, and should.”

    Learn the difference between “talking about what others said” and “endorsing what others said”.

    despite not understanding them,

    Assumption: “not a programmer = unable to understand what’s going on”. I think that I showed well through this thread this is blatantly false.

    and also to emit words on the topic despite not having a qualified opinion

    Refer to the first paragraph.

    It’s also relevant to note that, most likely, nobody here has the “kwalifikashuns” to discuss this topic. Not even programmers - because odds are that nobody here is in a position to change anything about it.

    It sounds like you want me to not take you seriously

    Okay… so far, so good.

    (so that I won’t reply to you)

    *rolls eyes* assumption, again. Clearly assuming why I’m being dismissive towards you.

    It has zero to do with me not wanting to be taken seriously. It’s because you show blatant lack of basic reading comprehension, while still saying this “I’m docking you” cringe. For example, vomiting an info dump that does not contradict a single shred of what I said (as if it contradicted), or with a hypothetical that is clearly irrelevant (“if it was a slur” - it is not, period).

    Worth noting: nobody here has in a position to “dock lol” anyone else here.

    and also take you seriously (so that you are counted as part of the programming public.)

    Assumption…

    Quoting Gaynor: [insert quote]

    Cool beans. And this does not contradict what I said, because contrariwise to what you are assuming = making shit up, I am not endorsing Hellwig’s view that Rust does not belong to the kernel, I am explaining his point of view while clearly saying “okay, Rust in the kernel seems fine, based on what people said here, but Martin is creating drama”.

    I couldn’t be arsed to read the rest of the text. Other users are able to provide information about Rust here, so I’m not missing anything, minus the cringe and assumptions.

    TL;DR: stop assuming.