Harris and Biden are fascist. Your 11 paragraphs are attacking beliefs drag does not hold. Drag did not defend those beliefs, because drag agrees with your criticisms of them. It would be nice if your criticisms lead to a belief in protecting Palestine, but alas. You instead decide to spend all this time attacking Harris voters for not being as sour about their decision as you are. You think they, and you, have something to be guilty for. There is no guilt in choosing the least harm. There is guilt in choosing not to choose. There is guilt in neglecting one’s responsibilities in favour of the comfort of inaction.
No, I understand your point, and you’re completely missing mine.
You’re saying people are obligated to choose diet fascism or fascism, and those who chose are absolved of guilt while those who abstained aren’t. I’m saying they’re not, and to blame them for anything is ridiculous, the blame is on the Democrats.
And what would their action have sparked even had they voted? The US just walked back their threats regarding further aid to Israel. According to third party organizations like the UN, Israel hasn’t improved aid access in Gaza, but the US just announced they’ll be sending more weapons to Israel anyway.
So where’s the least harm, Netanyahu got what he wanted regardless of the clearly toothless threat (and literal virtue signaling to their base to win votes) from the Democrats? The genocide continues, but you’re going to tell yourself your hands are clean because you chose the least harm?
We support a genocide, drag, we have no moral superiority over those who didn’t support it. Blame Harris and the Dems, where the blame lies, and be angry you were put in this position to begin with. The Democrats are supposed to be better than this, and have no excuse not to have been. And they lost because of it, hold them accountable, not non-voters who need to be won over, not condescended to and scolded.
You’re saying people are obligated to choose diet fascism or fascism, and those who chose are absolved of guilt while those who abstained aren’t
Fascism or liberalism, but you’ve got the spirit. We are thrust into this world with conscience and reason, and thus we are burdened with choice. You cannot crawl back into Eden and pretend you do not know of good and evil. You are imbued innately with choice and freedom, and thus responsibility. There is not an option in which you are not responsible for the consequences of your actions.
Do you understand this much of drag’s argument? The assertion that choice is inevitable? Because while your comment started out good, it immediately changed the subject into agreeing with drag about the complacency of the Democrats and the evil of Netanyahu’s regime. If you want to agree with drag all day and get nowhere on the issues we actually have reason to discuss, then continue talking about simple material things we both understand.
But if you want to show that you understand the reason drag holds drag’s opinions, then comment on the actual substance of our disagreement, the nature of choice. Can we crawl back to Eden and forsake our ability to choose? Are we responsible as passive bystanders?
Harris/Biden: show unconditional support to fascist leader of Israel during his genocide of Palestinians.
You: That’s not fascism, that’s liberalism.
Sure.
Voters aren’t obligated to vote, candidates are supposed to earn votes by showing their ideas and policies are worth supporting.
So where’s the benefit in supporting a genocide?
Keep letting them march us right and condescending to a base of voters who are telling you what they want/expect because you have some imagined notion of moral superiority you think you have for supporting the lesser evil. Keep ignoring everything I’m telling you and how this looks to voters like myself, and acting like no, no, you know best.
Oh, so we’re not actually having a discussion, we’re ignoring our opponent and throwing easy-to-understand rhetoric because it’s safe and comfortable and familiar?
I didn’t want to write another 11 paragraphs that you’d just complain about.
You can’t see fascism for what it is, when it’s standing in front of you, and still act like you are morally superior to anyone.
Got it, drag. You do you, still waiting for you to say anything of note beyond “choosing not to choose is the worstest choice.” You got anything else?
Anything about how supporting a genocide unconditionally despite public outcry isn’t fascism? Or is that a branch of liberalism I’m unfamiliar with? Hence diet-fascism and fascism, from before, in one of the many pages of comments I wrote.
Complaining that Biden isn’t a liberal because he’s bad is silly. Liberalism is bad. Drag wrote three paragraphs about things that actually matter, and half a sentence on a nitpick. You decided this conversation was actually going to be about drag’s nitpick. Whatever, you’re right about the nitpick, drag doesn’t care. Do you want to prove that you understand why drag made drag’s point, or do you want to take the option drag explained earlier in which you change the subject to simple material issues we both fully understand because you don’t know what drag means by “choice is inevitable”?
because you don’t know what drag means by “choice is inevitable”?
I’m doing my best to be civil, especially considering the last time you and I spoke, you called me a fascist nazi Trump supporter who wanted drag and drag’s friends all dead, despite me also being LGBTQ, a veteran, and having voted for Harris.
So no, I’m not debating your supposed enlightened imagined moral superiority because you only see the binary of “choice: liberalism (diet fascism) or fascism.” I get it “choice is inevitable,” “by choosing not to choose, you’ve made a choice,” “I am so very enlightened because I passed an introductory college course on philosophy.”
We get it, drag, you’re arguing that the choice of not choosing is the worst choice because you’ve not supported the least worst choice, and therefore de facto supported the worst choice. That’s your argument, right, with some lengthy and convulated nonsense about the morality around the choices that are thrust into our lap and the unfairness of life and the responsibility on the individual (the individual voters, of course, not the individuals unconditionally supporting s genocide) to make the least-bad choice no matter what.
Did I get it? That’s your argument in a nutshell, right, which is why the Democrats and their party leadership are absolved of all wrongdoing and all of the blame and guilt belongs at the feet of those who didn’t vote? Or does this apply to third parties too? We’ll just assume it does.
Life isn’t like that, and drag can keep doubling down on those who didn’t vote being the most guilty, or drag can understand that that is just further disenfranchising a large demographic of non-voters that the Democrats clearly need to turn out for them. And drag doesn’t get to cherry pick which policies they support of their candidate, you support them and all of their ideals.
So they stayed home, that’s their choice, and there’s no guilt in that. But keep blaming them, like I said before, I’m sure that’s winning people over to your morally just and superior cause.
You have correctly understood drag’s reason for believing what drag believes. Now, drag has a hypothesis as to what rebuttal you just offered, but it’s quite bewildering, so please be patient as drag asks: Is your rebuttal of the idea of the necessity of choice, that if we believed people to be responsible for the choices they don’t make, then we would have to believe the Democrats are absolved of guilt?
Because what?
Wait… wait wait wait… okay, drag is starting to understand your point of view, drag hopes. You’re saying we can’t believe voters have any blame for the results of the election, because that would mean the Democrats can’t have any blame. Because blame is a finite resource and must be carefully rationed?
No. Blame is an infinite resource. Two people can both be 100% to blame for the same thing. The Democrats and the voters can both be bad. Drag thinks drag understands why you keep insisting drag thinks the Dems are good now. It’s because drag is blaming two different groups, and you think that’s impossible, so you assume drag is lying and actually only blaming the voters. Isn’t it?
Harris and Biden are fascist. Your 11 paragraphs are attacking beliefs drag does not hold. Drag did not defend those beliefs, because drag agrees with your criticisms of them. It would be nice if your criticisms lead to a belief in protecting Palestine, but alas. You instead decide to spend all this time attacking Harris voters for not being as sour about their decision as you are. You think they, and you, have something to be guilty for. There is no guilt in choosing the least harm. There is guilt in choosing not to choose. There is guilt in neglecting one’s responsibilities in favour of the comfort of inaction.
No, I understand your point, and you’re completely missing mine.
You’re saying people are obligated to choose diet fascism or fascism, and those who chose are absolved of guilt while those who abstained aren’t. I’m saying they’re not, and to blame them for anything is ridiculous, the blame is on the Democrats.
And what would their action have sparked even had they voted? The US just walked back their threats regarding further aid to Israel. According to third party organizations like the UN, Israel hasn’t improved aid access in Gaza, but the US just announced they’ll be sending more weapons to Israel anyway.
So where’s the least harm, Netanyahu got what he wanted regardless of the clearly toothless threat (and literal virtue signaling to their base to win votes) from the Democrats? The genocide continues, but you’re going to tell yourself your hands are clean because you chose the least harm?
We support a genocide, drag, we have no moral superiority over those who didn’t support it. Blame Harris and the Dems, where the blame lies, and be angry you were put in this position to begin with. The Democrats are supposed to be better than this, and have no excuse not to have been. And they lost because of it, hold them accountable, not non-voters who need to be won over, not condescended to and scolded.
Fascism or liberalism, but you’ve got the spirit. We are thrust into this world with conscience and reason, and thus we are burdened with choice. You cannot crawl back into Eden and pretend you do not know of good and evil. You are imbued innately with choice and freedom, and thus responsibility. There is not an option in which you are not responsible for the consequences of your actions.
Do you understand this much of drag’s argument? The assertion that choice is inevitable? Because while your comment started out good, it immediately changed the subject into agreeing with drag about the complacency of the Democrats and the evil of Netanyahu’s regime. If you want to agree with drag all day and get nowhere on the issues we actually have reason to discuss, then continue talking about simple material things we both understand.
But if you want to show that you understand the reason drag holds drag’s opinions, then comment on the actual substance of our disagreement, the nature of choice. Can we crawl back to Eden and forsake our ability to choose? Are we responsible as passive bystanders?
Yeah, we’re done.
Harris/Biden: show unconditional support to fascist leader of Israel during his genocide of Palestinians.
You: That’s not fascism, that’s liberalism.
Sure.
Voters aren’t obligated to vote, candidates are supposed to earn votes by showing their ideas and policies are worth supporting.
So where’s the benefit in supporting a genocide?
Keep letting them march us right and condescending to a base of voters who are telling you what they want/expect because you have some imagined notion of moral superiority you think you have for supporting the lesser evil. Keep ignoring everything I’m telling you and how this looks to voters like myself, and acting like no, no, you know best.
Oh, so we’re not actually having a discussion, we’re ignoring our opponent and throwing easy-to-understand rhetoric because it’s safe and comfortable and familiar?
I didn’t want to write another 11 paragraphs that you’d just complain about.
You can’t see fascism for what it is, when it’s standing in front of you, and still act like you are morally superior to anyone.
Got it, drag. You do you, still waiting for you to say anything of note beyond “choosing not to choose is the worstest choice.” You got anything else?
Anything about how supporting a genocide unconditionally despite public outcry isn’t fascism? Or is that a branch of liberalism I’m unfamiliar with? Hence diet-fascism and fascism, from before, in one of the many pages of comments I wrote.
Complaining that Biden isn’t a liberal because he’s bad is silly. Liberalism is bad. Drag wrote three paragraphs about things that actually matter, and half a sentence on a nitpick. You decided this conversation was actually going to be about drag’s nitpick. Whatever, you’re right about the nitpick, drag doesn’t care. Do you want to prove that you understand why drag made drag’s point, or do you want to take the option drag explained earlier in which you change the subject to simple material issues we both fully understand because you don’t know what drag means by “choice is inevitable”?
I’m doing my best to be civil, especially considering the last time you and I spoke, you called me a fascist nazi Trump supporter who wanted drag and drag’s friends all dead, despite me also being LGBTQ, a veteran, and having voted for Harris.
So no, I’m not debating your supposed enlightened imagined moral superiority because you only see the binary of “choice: liberalism (diet fascism) or fascism.” I get it “choice is inevitable,” “by choosing not to choose, you’ve made a choice,” “I am so very enlightened because I passed an introductory college course on philosophy.”
We get it, drag, you’re arguing that the choice of not choosing is the worst choice because you’ve not supported the least worst choice, and therefore de facto supported the worst choice. That’s your argument, right, with some lengthy and convulated nonsense about the morality around the choices that are thrust into our lap and the unfairness of life and the responsibility on the individual (the individual voters, of course, not the individuals unconditionally supporting s genocide) to make the least-bad choice no matter what.
Did I get it? That’s your argument in a nutshell, right, which is why the Democrats and their party leadership are absolved of all wrongdoing and all of the blame and guilt belongs at the feet of those who didn’t vote? Or does this apply to third parties too? We’ll just assume it does.
Life isn’t like that, and drag can keep doubling down on those who didn’t vote being the most guilty, or drag can understand that that is just further disenfranchising a large demographic of non-voters that the Democrats clearly need to turn out for them. And drag doesn’t get to cherry pick which policies they support of their candidate, you support them and all of their ideals.
So they stayed home, that’s their choice, and there’s no guilt in that. But keep blaming them, like I said before, I’m sure that’s winning people over to your morally just and superior cause.
You have correctly understood drag’s reason for believing what drag believes. Now, drag has a hypothesis as to what rebuttal you just offered, but it’s quite bewildering, so please be patient as drag asks: Is your rebuttal of the idea of the necessity of choice, that if we believed people to be responsible for the choices they don’t make, then we would have to believe the Democrats are absolved of guilt?
Because what?
Wait… wait wait wait… okay, drag is starting to understand your point of view, drag hopes. You’re saying we can’t believe voters have any blame for the results of the election, because that would mean the Democrats can’t have any blame. Because blame is a finite resource and must be carefully rationed?
No. Blame is an infinite resource. Two people can both be 100% to blame for the same thing. The Democrats and the voters can both be bad. Drag thinks drag understands why you keep insisting drag thinks the Dems are good now. It’s because drag is blaming two different groups, and you think that’s impossible, so you assume drag is lying and actually only blaming the voters. Isn’t it?