• switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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    27 days ago

    Again, you’re thinking from a perspective of a market economy which China is not.

    no, i’m thinking from the perspective of resources being finite, which they are

    also, i don’t think you know what a market economy is. china literally calls itself a market economy

    I’m sure that saving countless millions of lives and preventing people from becoming sick and turning into a strain on the healthcare system is actually very good for the economy.

    the meme of “countless millions of lives” aside, you making this argument means that you accept that china shifting more to state-capitalism than regular capitalism isn’t intentional, so i’m not sure what point you’re trying to make

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      27 days ago

      no, i’m thinking from the perspective of resources being finite, which they are

      Resources being finite has fuck all to do with where manufacturing happens.

      also, i don’t think you know what a market economy is. china literally calls itself a market economy

      China is a state planned economy where markets act as an allocator. The state makes the decisions where the resources should be allocated however. That’s the difference from actual market economies where allocation happens completely organically based on the whims of the investors.

      In fact, what China actually calls itself is a birdcage economy where the market acts as a bird, free to fly within the confines of a cage representing the overall economic plan. https://informaconnect.com/a-birdcage-economy-understanding-china/

      the meme of “countless millions of lives” aside, you making this argument means that you accept that china shifting more to state-capitalism than regular capitalism isn’t intentional, so i’m not sure what point you’re trying to make

      It’s always adorable when people use terms they have very shallow understanding of. There is a fundamental difference between regular capitalism and what you refer to as state capitalism. The purpose of labor under regular capitalism is to create capital for business owners. Capital accumulation is the driving mechanic of the system, hence the name. Meanwhile, the purpose of state owned enterprise is to provide social value such as building infrastructure, producing food and energy, providing healthcare, and so on.

      The point I’m very obviously making is that the state has very different goals from private capital, and thus it allocates labor differently. If this is a point that you have trouble understanding then maybe you can spend a bit more time educating yourself on the subject instead of debating a subject you clearly have a very tenuous grasp of.

      • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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        26 days ago

        Resources being finite has fuck all to do with where manufacturing happens.

        china invents capability to snap fingers and materialize manufacturing capability out of thin air

        The state makes the decisions where the resources should be allocated however.

        i’m not willing to have this debate with you over whether china is a market economy when i’ve literally provided you a source that quotes china calling itself a market economy

        It’s always adorable when people use terms they have very shallow understanding of.

        you mean like when you said china wasn’t a market economy, despite china saying they were a market economy? and then when you accused me of using terms i didn’t understand then providing a description of those terms that showed i’d used them accurately? what point do you think you’re making here?

        The point I’m very obviously making is that the state has very different goals from private capital

        you’re trying to make that point by pointing to a shift away from private capital, which is a completely meaningless statistic because the shift away from private capital wasn’t intentional so doesn’t imply anything about an economic plan going forward

        i literally spelled that out for you last time and you still chose to deliberately miss it

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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          26 days ago

          china invents capability to snap fingers and materialize manufacturing capability out of thin air

          If by that you mean China spends decades building out manufacturing capacity and setting up supply chains then sure.

          i’m not willing to have this debate with you over whether china is a market economy when i’ve literally provided you a source that quotes china calling itself a market economy

          I’ve literally provided you with the source explaining the context of markets within the Chinese economy and explained why your understanding is superficial. Clearly you don’t care about actually understanding the subject you’re opining on.

          you mean like when you said china wasn’t a market economy, despite china saying they were a market economy?

          Literally explained to you why it’s not, you didn’t bother addressing any of that and just continued bleating about China being a market economy. Really showing the quality of your intellect here.

          you’re trying to make that point by pointing to a shift away from private capital, which is a completely meaningless statistic because the shift away from private capital wasn’t intentional so doesn’t imply anything about an economic plan going forward

          LMFAO

          i literally spelled that out for you last time and you still chose to deliberately miss it

          if you work on your reading comprehension a bit, then you’ll see that I’ve addressed your nonsense already

          • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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            26 days ago

            If by that you mean China spends decades building out manufacturing capacity and setting up supply chains then sure.

            i’m sitting here arguing that china has invested more than zero in setting up external manufacturing, then suddenly you forget what your point is, and emphasize just how much china has invested in setting up external manufacturing

            you’re so absolutely rabid to just disagree with anything i say, you’re willing to render the chain of your argument completely incoherent to do it

            yes, china spending decades building out supply chains for external manufacturing inherently means they’re less invested in domestic industry, or they wouldn’t spend decades to do it

            I’ve literally provided you with the source explaining the context of markets within the Chinese economy and explained why your understanding is superficial.

            you’re arguing with china’s interpretation of their own economy by providing a non-mutually exclusive definition

            good job

            then you’ll see that I’ve addressed your nonsense already

            again, combined with the “LMFAO” above this is completely incoherent

            maybe work on addressing the argument i’ve spelled out to you multiple times rather than falling back on the tried and true “well your reading comprehension is bad” like we’re 12 year olds arguing in the youtube comments section

            if you’re so sure you’ve addressed it, quote it, and i’ll do the reading comprehension for you and explain to you why the thing you quoted isn’t actually addressing anything

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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              26 days ago

              you’re so absolutely rabid to just disagree with anything i say, you’re willing to render the chain of your argument completely incoherent to do it

              The only one incoherent here is you bud because you’re discussing a topic you don’t understand. This is a perfect example of you being incoherent:

              yes, china spending decades building out supply chains for external manufacturing inherently means they’re less invested in domestic industry, or they wouldn’t spend decades to do it

              China is not developing external manufacturing at the cost of domestic manufacturing, nor is there anything inherent here. China is increasing capacity to supplement the domestic capacity. The fact that you can’t even understand such basic things is frankly phenomenal.

              you’re arguing with china’s interpretation of their own economy by providing a non-mutually exclusive definition

              Yeah, I’m arguing that Chinese understand how their economy works better than an ignorant internet troll.

              incoherent

              That word you keep using doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means.

              if you’re so sure you’ve addressed it, quote it, and i’ll do the reading comprehension for you and explain to you why the thing you quoted isn’t actually addressing anything

              This is not a long thread, go back and read it instead of making vapid replies here.

              • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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                26 days ago

                China is increasing capacity to supplement the domestic capacity.

                being less dependent on a thing automatically makes you less invested in a thing, but this is besides the point

                if you spend decades of effort ramping up manufacturing in one location (away), then that’s decades of effort you didn’t spend ramping up manufacturing in another location (at home)

                i literally cannot fathom how you’re so furious to be wrong that you’re still arguing contrary to that

                I’m arguing that Chinese understand how their economy works better than an ignorant internet troll.

                well china say their economy is a market economy, and you say otherwise, so i guess this puts you firmly in the ignorant internet troll camp

                This is not a long thread, go back and read it instead of making vapid replies here.

                your last three replies haven’t even been making an argument. they’ve just been quibbling over some definitions you’re wrong about, and shooting yourself in the foot by making my case for me.

                what are you even doing here?

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                  26 days ago

                  being less dependent on a thing automatically makes you less invested in a thing, but this is besides the point

                  If I have two apples and I buy a third apple then I’m not less invested in the two apples I already had. Let me know if I need to explain this in simpler term for you.

                  well china say their economy is a market economy, and you say otherwise, so i guess this puts you firmly in the ignorant internet troll camp

                  Well China doesn’t say that, and linked you an article explaining what China actually says. Feel free to keep ignoring that and regurgitating nonsense though.

                  • switchboard_pete@fedia.io
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                    26 days ago

                    If I have two apples and I buy a third apple then I’m not less invested in the two apples I already had. Let me know if I need to explain this in simpler term for you.

                    you just gave me an example that proved my point

                    if you have two apples, you can afford to lose one of those apples less than if you had three apples. try again.

                    you also probably wouldn’t spend a decade obtaining an orange if you were only interested in your two apples forever and ever.

                    you also replied to the bit that i explicitly called out as not relevant, which is hilarious

                     

                    “if you only have time to go to one shop, then going to the grape shop means you can’t go to the apple shop”

                    did it get through to you? are you about to reply telling me that any shop that sells grapes would realistically also sell apples or something? that seems in line with the quality of debate you’ve been providing thus far.

                     

                    Well China doesn’t say that, and linked you an article explaining what China actually says.

                    literally linked you a source referencing china explaining their own economy

                    and again, the interpretation you linked to isn’t mutually exclusive with “market economy”