So… you’re response to “hey, you may not know any, but there are evil teachers out there,” is … to call me a liar? to call me batshit insane?
Interesting.
Lets get the simple thing out of the way first.
I said:
it’s a profession that gives a position of authority over others; and specifically over people who are quite vulnerable.
You may not have met them, but there are teachers that are psychopaths. Many of those teachers who are also psychopaths might also come off as quite lovely, too.
and you think that statement is “batshit insane”.
If you look at the list, excepting librarians, every single one of those careers provides people with authority over others, many of whom are vulnerable for one reason or another; and some amount of disciplinary or punitive powers. Are you saying that teachers don’t have a significant amount of authority over students? that they don’t have disciplinary powers over students (even if it’s highly regulated,)
Consider how many teachers you know, and how many teachers there are. A quick websearch says that there’s about 3.2 million public school teachers in the US, at an average ratio of about 15 students per teacher. Are you really going to tell me, in your morally superior screed, that I’m bat shit crazy for assuming that some of those teachers are in fact psychopaths? or sociopaths? or people who display tendencies attributed to such?
Edit: the reason I tagged librarians on there at the end, "for balance"is because they’re similarly public servants (like most the list except CEOS), but don’t necessarily have that control over people, and certainly no power to discipline anything at all. IMO this would provide something of a baseline. maybe not the best baseline, but something of one.
(end of edits).
but as to your assertion that I don’t know any teachers. I sit in on school board meetings when ever I have the chance- I can usually make about half of them, maybe a bit less. many of the meetings are of the general ‘we’d like to hear from the public’; or are of specific things (like responding to particular incidents that happened in the school, etc…) Some of the stuff that has been said by teachers; either as what passes for testimony, or during what’s basically an open mic:
a girl was raped by other students, this particular teacher said it was ‘god’s will’ that she was raped; and that it was because she was [sexually promsicious]. This was said with her sitting in the hearing, with her parents.
one particular teacher keeps insisting he needs to be allowed to carry a firearm in class. his justification is that schools have become more violent and it’s unsafe; while working in a district that is one of the safest and best funded (and to be honest, quite heavily policed,) districts in the state; and when directly asked, unable to articulate any incident in any of the district’s schools that would have justified the use of firearms; and that several SRO’s, including the ones stationed at HIS school have now decided to show up to these meetings, in uniform, specifically to call him out on his bullshit.
Significant numbers of teachers speaking on book bans and removals from the library; many on both sides of the issue, the ones on the wrong side of it can’t help but let their homophobia leak out, along with being quite deranged.
In a similar vein, another teacher insisted that [muslim students] needed to be removed to an alternative school (which among other students, is where students with excessive disciplinary problems are sent.). Their justification was because they were all terrorists.
that the best way to addressa perceived problem of lack of discipline is to allow teachers to use corporal punishment. in her words, “spare the rod, spoil the child.” This was at a hearing where she was facing termination for assaulting a student, whose sole offense was refusing to recite the pledge of allegiance- which is not, and has not been a thing here for decades; at least as far back as I was a student.
a handful times there were hearings about inappropriate teacher-student relationships. one thing they all seemed to have in common was that the teacher was emotionally manipulative and coercive. it might not be the most common thing in the world, but it does happen. there’s probably a teacher in your school (or kids school), abusing a student in an ongoing relationship as we speak.
teachers who also happen to be coaches justifying abusive coaching practices (like not providing heat breaks or access to water, just to start things off.).
Teachers who happen to be coaches excusing away sexual abuse perpetrated by their student athletes.
Teachers that excuse/justify/otherwise argue for dehumanizing students over bathroom access. for a variety of mostly-bullshit reasons.
Teachers that allow, encourage, or otherwise fail to report target harassment by students over one form of bigotry or another.
And that’s all just in the few years I’ve made a concerted effort to be in there, and just what I remember.
Maybe my school district is the odd one out. But I rather doubt that very much.
Did you even read my comment before posting 9 paragraphs? I didn’t say it was batshit insane to claim that there are sociopathic teachers. I said it was batshit insane to compare the rates of sociopathy in teachers to the rates among politicians, ceo’s, and police. Which it is.
I apologize for starting this discussion, but it is quite interesting.
I feel i must add my anecdotal testimony. I’ve gotten the opportunity to teach high school for a few years, my mom was a grade school teacher her entire career, and my grandparents owned a preschool when i was a kid. So I have gotten to know a lot of teachers from every level of education. I also spent far too many years earning my degree while transferring amongst 3 different schools.
I can’t say that i have encountered a single teacher that really concerns me of being a psychopath. I am not a psychologist, and I’m sure it can be well hidden. But in my experience, teachers only become teachers because they really care and want to help other people.
Regardless, this discussion is purely hypothetical. Unless we want to start a national registry for psychopaths/sociopaths.
Did you even read my comment before posting 9 paragraphs? I didn’t say it was batshit insane to claim that there are sociopathic teachers. I said it was batshit insane to compare the rates of sociopathy in teachers to the rates among politicians, ceo’s, and police. Which it is.
You’ve clearly not read any of mine.
This is now the third time that I’ve explained why people are “lumped in” on that list. And that is that everyone on that list exerts control, or strong influence over other people. (Cops and politicians, the general public. CEO’s their employees, and the public that interacts with their company or is impacted by it, Teachers… their students.)
That is the thread which lumps them together. Having that authority over others is possibly what attracts psychopaths/sociopaths/NPD types to jobs like being a cop, being a politician, or pastor or CEO. Or, possibly, yes, being a teacher.
You’ll also notice, that that list of careers only really includes the sorts of jobs that are- or have historically been- viewed in a positive light. As honorable, or ‘pillars of the community’. I’m guessing you would generally describe teachers as “selfless” and “caring”, maybe even “highly empathic”; but, uhm. not to put too fine a point on it, before his arrest Dennis Rader would have been described exactly as that. he was a Church President, a Boy Scout Leader, and an AF vet. Of the people that knew him, it was almost impossible to believe that Dennis Rader was the BTK killer.
So yes. I would be very interested to see a study that looks at teachers and how many are psychopaths; as well as everyone else on that list. I’m going to assume teachers fall somewhere above a baseline of the rest of the population; and somewhere below the other professions on the list. I suggested Librarians as a sort of control group, because they also happen to be a career path that people look at as largely positive or honorable; but lacks any real authority over others.
Why would I engage? I obviously find your premise insane. Additionally, you have misstated my SHORT comments several times. I never called you insane, I said the argument is insane. Which it is.
I feel like maybe you don’t know any teachers. The fact that you lumped them in with politicians, ceos, and police is, quite frankly, batshit insane
So… you’re response to “hey, you may not know any, but there are evil teachers out there,” is … to call me a liar? to call me batshit insane?
Interesting.
Lets get the simple thing out of the way first.
I said:
and you think that statement is “batshit insane”.
If you look at the list, excepting librarians, every single one of those careers provides people with authority over others, many of whom are vulnerable for one reason or another; and some amount of disciplinary or punitive powers. Are you saying that teachers don’t have a significant amount of authority over students? that they don’t have disciplinary powers over students (even if it’s highly regulated,)
Consider how many teachers you know, and how many teachers there are. A quick websearch says that there’s about 3.2 million public school teachers in the US, at an average ratio of about 15 students per teacher. Are you really going to tell me, in your morally superior screed, that I’m bat shit crazy for assuming that some of those teachers are in fact psychopaths? or sociopaths? or people who display tendencies attributed to such?
Edit: the reason I tagged librarians on there at the end, "for balance"is because they’re similarly public servants (like most the list except CEOS), but don’t necessarily have that control over people, and certainly no power to discipline anything at all. IMO this would provide something of a baseline. maybe not the best baseline, but something of one.
(end of edits). but as to your assertion that I don’t know any teachers. I sit in on school board meetings when ever I have the chance- I can usually make about half of them, maybe a bit less. many of the meetings are of the general ‘we’d like to hear from the public’; or are of specific things (like responding to particular incidents that happened in the school, etc…) Some of the stuff that has been said by teachers; either as what passes for testimony, or during what’s basically an open mic:
And that’s all just in the few years I’ve made a concerted effort to be in there, and just what I remember.
Maybe my school district is the odd one out. But I rather doubt that very much.
Did you even read my comment before posting 9 paragraphs? I didn’t say it was batshit insane to claim that there are sociopathic teachers. I said it was batshit insane to compare the rates of sociopathy in teachers to the rates among politicians, ceo’s, and police. Which it is.
I apologize for starting this discussion, but it is quite interesting.
I feel i must add my anecdotal testimony. I’ve gotten the opportunity to teach high school for a few years, my mom was a grade school teacher her entire career, and my grandparents owned a preschool when i was a kid. So I have gotten to know a lot of teachers from every level of education. I also spent far too many years earning my degree while transferring amongst 3 different schools.
I can’t say that i have encountered a single teacher that really concerns me of being a psychopath. I am not a psychologist, and I’m sure it can be well hidden. But in my experience, teachers only become teachers because they really care and want to help other people.
Regardless, this discussion is purely hypothetical. Unless we want to start a national registry for psychopaths/sociopaths.
You’ve clearly not read any of mine.
This is now the third time that I’ve explained why people are “lumped in” on that list. And that is that everyone on that list exerts control, or strong influence over other people. (Cops and politicians, the general public. CEO’s their employees, and the public that interacts with their company or is impacted by it, Teachers… their students.)
That is the thread which lumps them together. Having that authority over others is possibly what attracts psychopaths/sociopaths/NPD types to jobs like being a cop, being a politician, or pastor or CEO. Or, possibly, yes, being a teacher.
You’ll also notice, that that list of careers only really includes the sorts of jobs that are- or have historically been- viewed in a positive light. As honorable, or ‘pillars of the community’. I’m guessing you would generally describe teachers as “selfless” and “caring”, maybe even “highly empathic”; but, uhm. not to put too fine a point on it, before his arrest Dennis Rader would have been described exactly as that. he was a Church President, a Boy Scout Leader, and an AF vet. Of the people that knew him, it was almost impossible to believe that Dennis Rader was the BTK killer.
So yes. I would be very interested to see a study that looks at teachers and how many are psychopaths; as well as everyone else on that list. I’m going to assume teachers fall somewhere above a baseline of the rest of the population; and somewhere below the other professions on the list. I suggested Librarians as a sort of control group, because they also happen to be a career path that people look at as largely positive or honorable; but lacks any real authority over others.
I feel pretty confident in saying that your assertion is wrong, and insane lol
So I’m crazy.
Good to know you won’t actually respond to the thing I’ve said four times and instead continue with personal attacks.
Yeah, repeating the same thing and expecting something different … I can see that. Cheers.
Why would I engage? I obviously find your premise insane. Additionally, you have misstated my SHORT comments several times. I never called you insane, I said the argument is insane. Which it is.