• givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    It’s literally this easy…

    It just requires the centrists to side with the left.

    What I don’t get, is in any country they’re routinely the ones that screech “both sides” when criticized.

    Like bro, youre not “the left” your by your own definition “half way”. Why wouldn’t a centrist get criticism from both sides?

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Yep, we have three factions in America:

        1. Conservative
        2. Moderate
        3. Progressive

        1 and 2 criticize 3

        2 and 3 criticize 1

        But when it’s time to criticize 2…

        If 1 does it, 2 “compromises” with them

        If 3 criticizes 2, then 2 starts screaming about “both sides” and saying group 3 is really group 1

        It doesn’t make any fucking logical sense, but that’s where we’ve been for decades. And it’s not working.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            What’s frustrating is progressives already won the fight back in 08…

            But instead of Obama putting his people in charge of the DNC (national Dem party) he just ignored the party, because the party ignored (or even hurt) his campaign.

            So when Obama left office, the party went right back to their old bullshit.

            Now we need to do it all over again.

            It’s honestly not that hard to fix, just ever since 08 the DNC has fought a lot harder to ensure progressives dont control the party.

            Every election that goes by that a progressive doesn’t win, the party locks it down tighter.

            This election they removed delegates from an entire state for our primary, because they always went first and kept voting progressive.

            And by and large, people just didn’t care…

            Hell, lots of Americans still don’t even know New Hampshire had their delegates stolen.

            • BakerBagel@midwest.social
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              4 months ago

              Obama was never a true progressive. His signature legislative victory was literally just yhe Republican health care plan from 10 years earlier. It was literally based on Romney’s overhaul of the Massachusetts health insurance reforms as governor.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                His signature legislative victory was literally just yhe Republican health care plan from 10 years earlier.

                It was actually a more conservative (shitty) version of Romney’s plan.

                But his campaign was progressive, and it flipped solid red states.

                So when the only goal we’re allowed to focus on is stopping trump, we don’t need an actual progressive. A moderate pretending to be progressive will be enough.

                It worked for Biden in 2020, but this election he stopped pretending and is only demanding votes.

                • BakerBagel@midwest.social
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                  4 months ago

                  And what happened afterwards? Because Obama’s failure to make meaningful changes to the average American’s life resulted in the Democrats loosing support in huge swaths of the country and gave us Trump.

        • joenforcer@midwest.social
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          4 months ago

          You got the factions wrong.

          1. Proud Conservatives
          2. Embarrassed Conservatives
          3. Progressives

          Makes more sense when you look at it that way.

        • grue@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          It’s because the corporate donors that support 2 are okay with 1 but fucking hate 3 because they threaten profits.

          • jj4211@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Well, not that clear cut nowadays. The far right have started getting all about super high tariffs and broadly impeding international trade and also getting rid of people who also generally provide a cheap labor market. Also a general sense of a will to undermine economy for the sake of their beliefs. The promises of lower taxes now come with some costs that likely make it not worth it.

        • jaybone@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I assume this is analogous to 1=Republican, 2=Democrat, 3=Progressive. ? So then usually it’s group 3 that is complaining about “both sides”?

      • Zos_Kia@lemmynsfw.com
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        4 months ago

        Yeah it’s hard to argue that Macron is a centrist. Sure he was elected as one, but his actions are pretty self explanatory

    • Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      In America centrist are just gullible people who think things like, “the economy is better under a republican.” Without ever realizing the economy they experience is the one that has been reigned in by a democrat which will then be let loose again by a republican just in time for a democrat to regain office.

      They say shit like, “I error on the side pro-life when it comes to abortion.” Acting like they were being humane when the real humane thing would be to prevent the suffering of both the mother and the child by building social structures that protect the poor. Things like universal healthcare, universal income, mandatory maternity leave, etc.

      Centrist believe the middle ground is if you listen to everyone in earnest then judge based on that. Never seeing that these truths they trust in are never the reality. The reality being is that things are very complicated and if you want to parse out your ideology you’ll have to do more than read the headline.

    • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      When you go issue by issue, the overwhelming majority supports left policies and rejects right wing fuckery because right wing fuckery fucks over 90% of people.

      Unfortunately most people are idiots and left candidates are morons when it comes to self marketing and expressing ideas, so it’s always a coin flip…

      • Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee
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        4 months ago

        They support “left” policies as long as those policies don’t hurt corporate profits… Then they agree with the right. All they need to do is take that one last little step to the left, embrace the working class, and abandon the ever shrinking right, and they’d never lose again.

        Corporate profits and hoarding wealth before paying for society is what hurts 90% of the people. Any individual social policy only hurts a small percentage of people at a time. (I know theoretically an attack on any of us is an attack on all of us, but unfortunately most people only care about things when they are directly effected)

    • NoMoreLurkingToo@startrek.website
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      4 months ago

      “It just requires the centrists to side with the left.”

      Maybe modern-day Girondins still have some qualms regarding making alliances with the left. Nobody wants to be the new Danton

    • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      yeah, this was a good surprise, but electoralism has never stopped fascism. these same people who made a point to vote left better be organizing right now. they will be back.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I thought it was because Europeans drive on the other side of the road?

        But I’m not 100% which side France uses.

            • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              There are some interesting repercussions of the expansion of the British Empire too. British Virgin Islands drive on the left with right hand drive cars. Islands that were purchased by other nations, like St. John, use American left hand drive cars while driving on the left side of the road.

              I rented a car in St. John, and I can say it’s so bizarre being the driver on the white line side of the road.

              • MutilationWave@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Totally tripped me out on Montserrat in a rental car. Their roads are insane, I’d never driven on the left hand side of the road before, and certainly not in a left driver’s side car. If the driver’s side was on the right I think I would have been way less scared.

                • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  Absolutely! Making my first right at a four-way intersection was terrifying. It’s kinda cool how your brain just gets it all of a sudden though.

    • fossphi@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      The fucking mirroring is making my body twitch. I wanna rip out my left half

  • ivn@jlai.lu
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    4 months ago

    It’s not that easy. First, who are the centrist? Things shifted to the right so much Macron is definitely right wing. You might call the Parti Socialiste (PS) centrist, it has a right and left wing in itself. In this sense you can call it an alliance.

    But if you are talking about Macron’s party I wouldn’t call that an alliance. Some withdrew when they were against a far right and a PS opponent but some didn’t when it was against a far right and a leftist opponent (or they had to be heavily pressured). And now in the parliament it’s definitely not going to be an alliance, they’ll be voting against most things the Nouveau Front Populaire (NFP) brings up, they voted with the far right in the past and will do it again.

    The whole point of Macron’s dissolution was probably to break the left in the first place, and they keep trying to split the NFP by saying they are willing to negotiate with it’s center part but not it’s left part.

    • Solumbran@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Macron can easily qualify as far right now. Anti immigration, extreme capitalism, fascism, that’s enough.

        • Solumbran@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Reducing immigrants’ rights, increasing the class gap, increasing the powers of the president, overusing a law made for exceptional situations as a way to bypass the democratic process, banning protests against him, recruiting criminals and attempting to protect them…

    • Ibaudia@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      For modern, neoliberal western euro nations I think he’s fairly centrist in today’s climate relatively speaking.

      • redisdead@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        He is not far right, but he is not centrist.

        Pushed retirement age two years using bogus numbers.
        Violent police free to mutilate peaceful protesters without consequences.
        Dismantling of public institutions.
        Reducing access to cheap medicine.
        Privatization of public universities.
        Etc.

        He cannibalized right wing voters from UMP back in the day for a very good reason.

        His program and his decisions are fairly anchored in typical right wing bullshit.

  • r3df0x ✡️✝☪️@7.62x54r.ru
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    4 months ago

    If rightoids don’t unambiguously disown actual white supremacists and fascists, this will happen here too.

    The American right has an easier time disowning the insane weirdos then the “progressive” movement does, but there are still a lot of ordinary boring conservatives who are convinced that actual white supremacists are just conservatives who are getting smeared by the boy who cried nazi. That could easily be the undoing of the right. The far left is far more agreeable to the masses then the far right.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      If rightoids don’t unambiguously disown actual white supremacists and fascists, this will happen here too.

      How would they accomplish this? The maintenance of white supremacism is literally the reason right-wing politics in the US exists - you’re asking them to stop being reactionaries and become… what? Socialists? Anarchists?

  • masquenox@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Allying with (so-called) “centrists” have never worked out well for the left.

    Never.

    • lugal@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      For the sake of completeness: Allying with authoritarian socialists has never worked out well for anarchists either

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        has never worked out well for anarchists either

        You wanna use the big bad “A” word underneath a swollen liberal hive-mind like this one?

        Careful… you might cause a panicked stampede.

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        If France wants to defeat the far right

        There is no such thing as a government that wants to “defeat” the far-right - they keep the far-right around for a very good reason.

  • menas@lemmy.wtf
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    4 months ago

    Central Unions and big political organizations have cancelled the common meeting planned for this week, because “the far-right didn’t pass” This the 3rd time they almost did, I don’t know how many warning shot they need.

    I’m sick of the blindness of the left management. We seriously need more people in grass roots organization.

  • rsuri@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    A guy named Von Papen once tried doing it the other way. Didn’t turn out well.

  • Th3D3k0y@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Off-Topic Fun Fact. The exit number at the top of the board is placed on the side of the board in which you would be exiting the highway. So if the Exit 12 is on the top left of the board, and ramp is on the left lane of the highway.