My reason for posting this question is to get some perspective, since I don’t live further west than Indiana.
Indiana has a lot of conservative tendencies, usually opposes progressive policies, and a little old school bigotry in the form of religion based disagreement with people’s life styles, like letter community.
From an outsiders perspective, TX, OK, MO etc are even more extreme.
This permalink above from a comment from a person referencing recently proposed legislation against letter community people specifically, though there’s tons of examples of bigotry like the school principal getting sued for discrimination due to a kid’s hair (black hair).
We know Lemmy is a bit more populated with left than right thinkers, but regardless, what’s going on in these western plains states? Is it as bad as it looks?
Do you personally know some sweet old church ladies who ‘hate the gays because they’ll going to hell’ or are there just more extreme law makers being elected that don’t represent the majority?
EDIT: tried to fix link to a conversation instead of a login page.
I’ll start by declaring my heavy bias, as someone who dearly loves the Plains but moved east, not only because of politics, but who could never return home in part because of politics.
Many Midwesterners are religious and most oppose pregnancy termination. Some think it should be legal but still discouraged socially, but the default position is “it’s immoral” and the default position within that is “and should be illegal”. To this mindset, which I used to share, it really is murder. Not “equivalent to”, but the thing itself.
Now it used to be that South Dakotants voted mostly on local issues locally and for whoever kept the agricultural subsidies rolling in federally. We had D governors and Tom Daschle was the Senate Democratic leader.
But as the religious right got further and further in bed with the GOP at the national level, the RNC got better at manipulating religious voters. And it wasn’t hard to notice that a lot of us would forego a bit of self interest for the greater good, like outlawing literal murder (to our minds). And so the national money started rolling in, hammering the issue of reproductive healthcare further and further into every race, especially those with powerful D incumbents like Daschle. I had moved away for college by that point but by the time I graduated SD was blood, and I mean blood, red.
(Caveat: unlike most states, these days SD is solid red in urban areas and bluish out in the lower-population rural areas. Can you guess why?)
From there, the ground was fertile for the Tea Party to sow the seeds of populism that our recent President so ably reaped.
So it’s your belief or feeling that the major motivator and shift in politics related to religion and acceptance was over a pivotal issue of abortion? In this SDs case, the abortion issue opened the door for trading values from one party to the devotion to another?
Would you say that shift was in spite of not everyone being fully committed to the rest of the GOP/R’s values? You suggested they overlook all the things they don’t generally agree with, or as much with, just to support the abortion ban?
It was and is absolutely a wedge issue that allowed the GOP to purge a lot of democratic incumbents and candidates from office two decades ago, and keep them unpalatable today. Once people are already “in the tent” it’s easier to keep them there, and to turn them further towards your point of view.
Now, don’t misunderstand: South Dakota was already conservative, both politically and socially. But that translated to electing conservative Democrats as well as conservative Republicans. I’m talking not so much about a change in policy preference as a rise in party “purity”.
In Iowa, the governor is strangely borderline. She is very accepting and even encouraging of immigrant migration to Iowa, but believes there is an illegal immigration crisis. She believes in increasing both STEM education and Social Emotional Learning in schools, but also has put it into law that a teacher who finds out a student as part of the LGBTQ+ community (or even asks to use a name that’s not in their cumulative file) MUST tell the parents. She’s repeatedly refused federal aid for school food programs and social services. She’s highly against medical marijuana except for the most extreme cases (not eve glaucoma) - to the extent of vetoing a law passed by the legislature to expand it to more cases - even as every state around us goes full recreational. She’s restricted abortion significantly. We have a surplus budget but our roads are shit. We have a banned books list, but it’s not as extreme as other states.
At the local level, things are different depending on where you live. My school district is great, very inclusive and accepting. There are many LGBTQ+ kids, open and still somewhat closeted, but not much pushback about it.
She’s repeatedly refused federal aid for school food programs and social services.
I’m pretty open minded, but what could possibly be the rational behind this shit? I guess the money comes with strings attached?
I don’t know, but I think it has something to do with “if you take federal money, the state has to match it” maybe. She always brags we have a budget surplus, so I don’t think money is a problem.
@[email protected] @[email protected] How is the general population?
In the midwest, we are called the Bible belt. We are also accused of being the biggest bigots, with terms like neo Christianity or religio-fascists. I like to think/pretend that law makers are a little more extreme or loud than the general population, but they still pander to a base that elects them, so that negates my idea to some extent. Maybe the process of legislating looses nuance and empathy because it’s difficult to do that in law? I’m not sure. Maybe I have an unrealistically rosy view of the region. I’m not in a group that would feel oppression or hatred for who I am unless I go to places with people who do, then I get labeled or target by those because I look like their oppressors (which is ironic, but understandable).
Indiana had the religious freedom act, which was a huge black eye. I could write a huge rant on cake lady. The short version is my refusal to accept her ideas as Christian/religion based, not mine anyway. IMO, Jesus never treated anyone like shit other than the Pharisees, whom he constantly schooled for ‘missing the point’. I think she was just a plain old fashion bigot, and I wish she would have just said “I don’t like gay people”. I wouldn’t have to agree, but at least she’d be honest and take the proper heat for it.
Unfortunately, I know there’s plenty of criticism for the Midwest, conservative region that probably has some roots in religion, but I’m not sure if it’s just because of religion or the negative manipulation of it. Example: Islam is inherently bad and violent, or it was corrupted to manipulate people to violence and hate?
I’m in one of the marginalized groups, being gay and married to a first-gen immigrant who also has trans people in my family and neighbors , family, friends who don’t speak English and/or are non-Christian (Muslims, atheists).
It’s not like everyone here is bad, but the people who elect these bigots know exactly what they stand for, and they support it.
Also, South Dakota has a really problematic history, so it’s not like all of this has just come out of left field.
And I know not all religious people are hateful, so I try not to characterize them that way. One of the first people I felt comfortable coming out to was a Muslim woman, and we (my husband and I) literally are friends with some clergy who happen to be some of the most outspoken LGBTQIA+ allies in our community imo.
But anyone who supports Republicans here knows exactly what they’re getting, and as I’ve said in many cases wish people like Noem would go even further to marginalize and oppress these marginalized groups. In fact, I used to try to befriend Republicans, but in every case they ended up disclosing to me some extremely fucked up goals, and I can’t legitimize their worldview by having anything to do with them beyond what my work requires.
one of the marginalized groups
You’re a double or triple then…:)
the people who elect these bigots know exactly what they stand for, and they support it. South Dakota has a really problematic history But anyone who supports Republicans here knows exactly what they’re getting
Do you think that is a majority, or just a powerful/extreme small group?
I don’t know anything about SD, so I’ll have to google what you’re talking about.
I can’t legitimize their worldview by having anything to do with them beyond what my work requires
I can relate to this in a small way. I’m probably way more conservative then most average/stereotype lemmy users, but I find that the view points of people I work with are far more extreme/right than mine. I’m maybe barely right, or right in some things, and left in others? Who cares. I just cannot for the life of me see how they can only view things/people from one side. When they rant about left/D things, I point out the same things about right/R things, it’s like they lose their minds. It’s all fake news and brainwashing, but they don’t see the hypocrisy in anyway. I have no idea how.
I am still hoping the whole region isn’t as bad as I’m led to believe. That’s the reason some of your view points are helpful.
I am still hoping the whole region isn’t as bad as I’m led to believe
Well I mean, it’s not all bad. We’ve got the tribal governments, we’ve got a still not insignificant number of people who aren’t members of extremist hate groups such as the Republicans. Some of us just live here because we somehow found ourselves here and lack the resources to relocate easily. I personally fear when people write us off as all bad when there are plenty of us working to make positive change. I know so many people on the res who aren’t in positions to move states, and I know there’s also a concerted effort from the right to block Native votes. There are a lot of good people here. In fact, I sometimes can forget I’m surrounded by bigots because my own social circles aren’t like that at all.
Are all Republicans the ‘same’ I your opinion?
I often want to think that people can be conservative and like some Republican ideas, but without the stereotypical bigotry stuff.
Personally now, I think that’s less and less possible, but part of why I’m asking.
I feel like I’m running into less barely Republican people, and more very Republican people. I guess by that, I mean people whom are more accepting or believing that their policies are right (being very opposed to immigration, accepting LGBTQ, pro corporate, etc).
I like the Midwest, and dislike the East Coast look and feel. I haven’t been on the West Coast enough to form a meaningful opinion.
I also don’t qualify for discrimination targeting. Most of the corruption I’m surrounded by seems to relate more to socioeconomics and greedy politicians than people who care about someone’s color/etc, but again, maybe naive…
Are all Republicans the ‘same’ I your opinion?
Pretty much, yeah. I didn’t used to, but they’ve shown me time and time again that they are awful.
but without the stereotypical bigotry stuff
I think that’s less and less possible
I don’t think it’s possible to be Republican without the stereotypical bigotry stuff. Even the “conservative economics” crowd – when you look at it, those “conservative economic” policies they support have been designed specifically to harm and disenfranchise marginalized groups. For instance, “the Dakota Access Pipeline is good because it helps the economy” is objectively a bigoted opinion.
believing that their policies are right (being very opposed to immigration, accepting LGBTQ, pro corporate, etc)
I mean, yeah. These people often believe their opinions and beliefs are helpful and just. They may believe that undocumented workers are really taking our jobs, or that we LGBTQIA+ people are pedos, or that privatization helps the poor – but all of these things are so mustache-twirlingly atrocious that they don’t get a pass for subscribing to beliefs that are causing so much widespread harm, even if they truly believe they are in the right.
I like the Midwest, and dislike the East Coast look and feel. I haven’t been on the West Coast enough to form a meaningful opinion.
I like the east coast because of the way their cities are designed. Visiting places like NYC or Philadelphia, I don’t even miss not having my car. I used to live near the west coast, and that was the opposite. I know there are things like parks and public transportation in LA and OC, but maaaaan I still felt compelled to drive everywhere. There’s natural beauty out there though, and I like their conservation areas. Personally, I’d live in Minneapolis, MN if I could. 10 minute walk from a park everywhere you go, and they keep extending the lightrail. I guess I kinda like the midwest. I don’t like my state, though, because I can never fit in here, and it’s like they specifically design our communities to be miserable. It could be a nice pretty place to live among nature, but it’s not.
Most of the corruption I’m surrounded by seems to relate more to socioeconomics and greedy politicians than people who care about someone’s color/etc, but again, maybe naive…
All that stuff is related, though. I don’t trust anyone who says they’re “just” an economic conservative because that’s still harmful – and this includes liberals, by the way. I don’t trust anyone who defends these inherently inequitable systems. I’m extremely unhappy with both our major parties.
This is all my opinion though, and much of it is based on my repeated experiences. I had to leave my last job because I reported overt racism by people who were some of these “totally not racist but conservative” types. Didn’t surprise me that it happened, because I’m old and I’ve seen this scenario play out time and time again with different people.
Thanks for the insight.
It’s a shame we still can all just get along. That saying is lame, but it’s ultimately the goal.
One of my ideas, that isn’t terribly realistic or shouldn’t have to be resorted to, is to locate our selves in regions that are more welcoming.
There was a person at my work who was lesbian, which I suspected, but they weren’t open. One day at a social event, they brought their wife and brother (for support) and made public. I was stupid and didn’t put all that together until then.
They moved to Washington State and both have great jobs now. I felt like part of that move was related to moving to a region known to support their life style more welcomingly, at least compared to Indiana.
You shouldn’t have to do that, but if I could stack enough chips to afford doing that and needed to, I would.
I said above that you shouldn’t have to do that ever. No one should be treated like shit by whole groups of people, political, religious or other wise.
I like the idea of states competing for talent and opportunity. Washington also tried decriminalization of all drugs. Lots of people nay sayed. I thought it was great. They tried an experiment instead of just listening to a bunch of wind bags. That didn’t work as it was implemented, but we all got real world data, and identified other failures of legislation that went beyond just drugs (treatment, transportation issues, logistics, funding,.etc). I might be all talk though, I would not want to conduct that here.
Weed is the same way. All the states doing it are eventually going to have eliminated all excuses for now allowing it. Some states still might never. That’s ok. People can shuffle around based on what’s important to them.
You shouldn’t ever have to be subjected to mistreatment just for who you are though, anywhere in America.
I hate both our parties, most of all politicians, and a large majority of our policies in their current form. There’s no one for me to vote for, and no national pride in what they do or represent.
South Dakota here. I typed out a long reply several times, but I don’t know how to explain it.
Our governor is obviously an extremist, fully subscribing to the concept of a “border crisis,” anti-LGBTQIA+ policies, being so overtly racist that she’s banned from three reservations.
I’m a “redneck” looking cis male, and people will share with me their opinions, thinking I’ll agree. These people don’t think people like Noem and Trump go far enough. It’s actually important to understand that even the “nice church people” types believe this. They support much more extreme policies than what we’re seeing.
Edit: I forgot to say this, but this is only responding to the contents of your post. Your link takes me to the kbin login page.
These people don’t think people like Noem and Trump go far enough. It’s actually important to understand that even the “nice church people” types believe this. They support much more extreme policies than what we’re seeing.
Holy shit, what do they want, a culling?
There’s some mega churches around me, but they are very modern, kid glove, and do the whole ‘come as you are’. That’s not the same thing as accepting people in the letter community, they still think those people are living wrong, but they are generally more compassionate about it.
Edit, I think some of those churches would love to have letter community people attend, but that’s because they’d hope to love on them enough to have them change their life. I honestly believe they’d be doing it out of genuine concern or ‘love’, regardless of whether that’s misguided or not. How misguided and crazy that sounds to people usually depends on how they feel about these people’s lives and if you accept them for who they are or not.
Example, I think most of the common mega church people around here would follow the Bible’s parable about the adulteress and ‘let the person without sin cast the first stone’ approach. God in that example shows he cares about her more than the bad thing she did first, then calls out people for a lack of compassion and thinking what they were doing wrong was more OK than her, but lastly said ‘go and sin no more’ which was basically ‘try to stop doing this’. My post isnt about religion, I’m just using this as an example to illustrate that I think there’s varying degrees of people/religion/bigotry and I am not sure if regions are all the same.
What you’re describing sounds far more extreme to me than people around me in Indiana, but again, I might be missing things.
Holy shit, what do they want, a culling?
Um, yes? There have been plenty of mask off statements to that effect, just imagine how many more keep the mask on for the cameras.
Edit: I forgot to say this, but this is only responding to the contents of your post. Your link takes me to the kbin login page.
crap, I’ll fix it, hold on. It was supposed to be someone speaking of their oppression. Edit, I think I got the link right. It opened in a different browser for me this time.
The cities are liberal, but there’s a lot of rural communities that have never had to deal with people before.
The northeast is known for being kind but not nice. Four New Yorkers will carry your luggage down the subway stairs and never look at you once. The south is known for being nice, but not kind. That’s where the poisoned sweet tea comes from. The west is known for neither, if you have car trouble, the best you can hope for in Portland is being ignored. The Midwest is known for being both nice and kind, where neighbors will shovel you out and wish you a nice day before going on to the next car.
I tend to agree with the nice and kind part of Midwest, with exception that it seems like we’re becoming more hard-line against things people call woke or alternate life styles.
I’m using a universal ‘we’ since, and I think you’re right - there’s a difference between urban city thinking and rural community thinking.
I have a whole theory about the city thinking and rural thinking having to due with ownership or property, but that’s a whole other thing…
I don’t know if it’s property so much as just being around and having to live around so many different people. Like, if I take the bus, I’ll probably pass a hundred different folks to and from work, and only two are going to annoy me.
But, it’s a lot easier to be insular if I live in a small town with 300 people, and can easily assume all my problems are someone else’s fault. I’ll see three new people a week when the tourists stop at the gas station.
Full agree. But I’ll add something to the Midwest description, we’re nice, kind, and if we’ve never met your kind before beware. Midwesterners will fight tooth and nail for trans people when we know the neighbor kid who turned out trans, but if we don’t we’ll fucking ban that shit because it’s clearly a mental illness that must be stopped before it spreads to here. We’re similar on racial issues, gay rights, etc. And I’m not fucking around, I know people who weren’t uncomfortable towards middle eastern people in the 00s, but got so uncomfortable around black people it was real bad, and exposure was the crux of it. We’re so community focused that we fall into deep tribalism.
Are you talking about NASCAR? MAGA?
In seriousness though - it’s LGBTQ+.
No one calls it “the letter community”. That’s invalidating.
invalidating
Understood, Wasnt intended or criticism.
More maga I guess, and the recent proposed legislation in the cited articles the person referencing them used to justify their opinion/feeling that Republicans wanted them dead/gone.
